tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post2462444795254002337..comments2024-03-28T17:11:52.333+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Market failure?Curmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-24663638544945732752011-03-27T16:00:42.507+01:002011-03-27T16:00:42.507+01:00Hmm, the last comment, while directed at "PC&...Hmm, the last comment, while directed at "PC", seems to refer more to "DP".<br /><br />I entirely accept your point that some pubs seem spectacularly badly run, but on the other hand it may be that the market for proper traditional pubs serving cask beer isn't actually any greater than that served at present, so converting pubs to that kind of format rather than wacky jazz bars may not in reality be a recipe for success.<br /><br />Having said that, a free market system allows entrepreneurs to test the proposition far better than any alternative.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-29839789065301989712011-03-27T15:28:15.316+01:002011-03-27T15:28:15.316+01:00PC: "well bitten"? Master of the snappy ...PC: "well bitten"? Master of the snappy putdown, but incapable of coherent argument or answering my points.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-61792175332180941482011-03-23T08:13:54.054+00:002011-03-23T08:13:54.054+00:00"there's nothing like a good political ge...<i>"there's nothing like a good political generalisation to establish the tone of the thread."</i><br /><br />Indeed. Well bitten. (They're not very good at the concept of property rights either) ;)Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-17573175405185587342011-03-23T01:51:09.990+00:002011-03-23T01:51:09.990+00:00Curmudgeon: your 2nd paragraph - I think you'...Curmudgeon: your 2nd paragraph - I think you've missed my point. Yes, the company has the right to change things, but I was actually questioning their business competence when they continue to score such own goals: a frequent occurrence in the pub trade. I could quote more examples.<br /><br />Your 3rd paragraph - obviously some truth in that, but then it's also true that every individual beer drinker is part of the market too. I'm not sure that this a particularly useful insight.<br /><br />Instead of silly swipes at lefties (referring to PC's comment), or right wingers for that matter, it would more fruitful to wonder why in a supposedly free market economy, those who run capitalist companies can be so often useless at understanding what supplying what the customer wants actually means.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-28985069573873352362011-03-22T21:26:08.655+00:002011-03-22T21:26:08.655+00:00The point is made on the Left Outside thread that ...The point is made on the Left Outside thread that a lot of conventional economic analysis (of both "sides") doesn't sufficiently go into how innovation interplays with markets.<br /><br />Surely any business operator has a right to try something new and see if it works. If it does, good, if it doesn't, it's his own risk. Just like your pool hall example.<br /><br />And the key point is that CAMRA effectively IS part of the operation of the market, not something that stands outside it.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-59764153311798981512011-03-22T21:11:28.038+00:002011-03-22T21:11:28.038+00:00DP: there's nothing like a good political gene...DP: there's nothing like a good political generalisation to establish the tone of the thread. There are plenty of right-wing free marketeers who don't seem to understand the market, many of them in government now. <br /><br />The principle of supply and demand is so often not used in the pub industry that I sometimes wonder whether PubCos are run by anybody with business experience at all. Several pubs around here have had popular beers removed by the pub owner because it didn't fit with their "vision" for the pub, even though in one case it was the best seller. One pub lost its real ale altogether - the licensee told me he was selling more than enough to keep it on, but they wanted to "reposition" the pub as a pool hall with bottled lagers and alcopops (an experiment which lasted under a year).<br /><br />In what way is this supply and demand? And in what alternate universe does such stupidity negate the need for CAMRA and its ilk? And who is to say that a lot of British businesses aren't run in a similarly moronic fashion? I.e. don't give the punters what they want - tell them what they want.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-23634992264445500342011-03-22T18:51:54.336+00:002011-03-22T18:51:54.336+00:00PC, I agree with your nice simple view. In this ca...PC, I agree with your nice simple view. In this case, what appears correct at first blush is in fact correct. <br /><br />@ DP, I'm not convinced that TW is a real fan of free markets at all. He opposes Customs Duties (correctly) but thinks that VAT is an OK tax (when actually, it's exactly the same as Customs Duties but several times worse).Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-87627201143757219942011-03-22T18:29:14.866+00:002011-03-22T18:29:14.866+00:00It was fun reading all that today. Tim really grin...It was fun reading all that today. Tim really grinds lefty gears, but then he would seeing as he's difficult to counter on market economics, whereas lefties completely misunderstand markets.Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.com