tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post2620895456505865484..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Growing old disgracefullyCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-87343838416329608812016-08-24T20:48:58.891+01:002016-08-24T20:48:58.891+01:00From talking to students at Keele there is a marke...From talking to students at Keele there is a marked polarisation ( as with so many other issues ) whereby there is still a hard core of what one might call "traditional" students whose social life revolves around pubs and bars ( another distinction which in itself spawns a further debate ), whilst others' focus is the electronic device . <br />The big event , however, still brings them out, the Union at Keele can still attract 2,000 through the doors for the key events.<br />For those of us who know who we are, the pub is/was the default option but that is no longer the case. I suppose if your focus is tapping at a small screen, the joys of your surroundings are less relevant.Malcolm Nichollshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04114433389090892217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26255949375875260262016-08-24T09:43:17.848+01:002016-08-24T09:43:17.848+01:00Fair point, but I was in Bournemouth recently - p...Fair point, but I was in Bournemouth recently - possibly the UK capital of oldies - and there were plenty of young'uns out on the lash and I doubt they were there on holiday. That said, the people I was with who ranged from mid 20s to 50s, were all reluctant to have more than a couple of beers or a glass of wine. Maybe drinking as a hobby is in its sunset years?electricpicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144970068645280352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26758990256426616122016-08-24T07:38:28.434+01:002016-08-24T07:38:28.434+01:00Yes, lager's market share seems to have peaked...Yes, lager's market share seems to have peaked at around 70%, and within ale/stout segment keg has lost share due to smoking ban and older drinkers dying off.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-23293681359336532512016-08-23T21:36:00.886+01:002016-08-23T21:36:00.886+01:00I never said young people had stopped drinking, bu...I never said young people had stopped drinking, but all the evidence is that, across the board, they're doing it markedly less. Weekend nights in Northern industrial cities are probably the time and place where it's least noticeable.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-3618359373119394242016-08-23T17:10:07.633+01:002016-08-23T17:10:07.633+01:00If you pay a visit to Newcastle, Durham, Sunderlan...If you pay a visit to Newcastle, Durham, Sunderland, Middlesbrough or perhaps Manchester city centre on, say, a Friday or Saturday night, your theory about young people not drinking will be thoroughly debunked. They just don't want to drink what you drink, when you drink it, or where you drink it.ElectricPicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30268180243701788532016-08-23T10:33:15.732+01:002016-08-23T10:33:15.732+01:00The decline in "real ale" volumes (absol...The decline in "real ale" volumes (absolute, as well as by proportion) continued well into the first decade of this century. Only then did it stabilise somewhat. So, yay! Well done CAMRA.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-32247316270211687522016-08-23T07:07:33.962+01:002016-08-23T07:07:33.962+01:00Not so – there’s a wealth of reports about a sharp...Not so – there’s a wealth of reports about a sharp decline in young people drinking in pubs and bars. See here, for example:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Running-your-pub/Marketing/Dramatic-decline-in-young-people-going-for-pub-drink" rel="nofollow">Dramatic decline in young people going for pub drink</a><br /><br />The fact that *some* young people continue to do so isn’t representative of the whole, and craft beer bars appeal to a fairly limited demographic.<br /><br />They’re also conspicuous by their absence in places like Offerton and Higher Hillgate. As I said, there isn’t some parallel universe of cool bars that the Staggers studiously avoid.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-21536064212300439032016-08-23T07:04:35.294+01:002016-08-23T07:04:35.294+01:00Has real ale been "saved" though? There ...Has real ale been "saved" though? There are still many keg deserts, and in many of the places it is available quality can be very iffy. Plus the absolute volume consumed is far less than it was when CAMRA was formed.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-4314813661184835672016-08-23T06:35:22.298+01:002016-08-23T06:35:22.298+01:00My 19-year-old kid is at Uni.He and his mates drin...My 19-year-old kid is at Uni.He and his mates drink nowhere else but Weatherspoons.It's all they can afford plus they have free wifi which,he tells me,a lot of pubs STILL don't have.His local Spoons is also quite happy to have students loafing around all day which a lot of pubs aren't.It's a fallacy to say young people don't go to pubs any more.They just go to different pubs than the ones their Dads go to.Lord Egbert Nobaconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-84711045874299281472016-08-22T22:43:36.083+01:002016-08-22T22:43:36.083+01:00Oh "banter". Right.Oh "banter". Right.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-3091175342502553542016-08-22T22:38:13.290+01:002016-08-22T22:38:13.290+01:00This makes a good point. It's not that younge...This makes a good point. It's not that younger drinkers aren't going to pubs - they are just going to different pubs (or places that Mudgie and his ilk would not consider to be pubs). John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-75639469055242470212016-08-22T22:22:56.618+01:002016-08-22T22:22:56.618+01:00All of this is fascinating...All of this is fascinating...Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-8645522887463302442016-08-22T22:15:14.083+01:002016-08-22T22:15:14.083+01:00Interesting piece. But exactly why think CAMRA nee...Interesting piece. But exactly why think CAMRA needs to re-evaluate what it is about. Being of that generation (born 1956), most of my membership was spent trying to save "Real Ale" through the dark days when it was becoming more and more of an effort to find it. But those days have past. Now "Real Ale" (the quality can be disputed) can be found almost everywhere. Currently beer (in its many guises) is fashionable, in quality if not in quantity. And that is something to embrace IMO. So where should CAMRA head? Move on from the nit-picking 'what is real beer', and focus on the survival of how it is best delivered - through the pub. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30969790574137744102016-08-22T21:51:56.111+01:002016-08-22T21:51:56.111+01:00Or very conscious of not seeing youngsters is the ...Or very conscious of not seeing youngsters is the pubs you frequent? Am regularly conscious of being oldest by 20 to 30+ years in some of the "Craft" beer establishments that are part of my mix of pubs. Doesn't deter me though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-81423262037910149442016-08-22T17:42:50.879+01:002016-08-22T17:42:50.879+01:00Maybe "structured proceedings" would be ...Maybe "structured proceedings" would be a better term. <br /><br />And I don't see that my comments go beyond the usual banter about "crafties" and "beardies". You're taking them much too seriously.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-41710719287645713162016-08-22T17:17:34.469+01:002016-08-22T17:17:34.469+01:001. and 2. are fair enough. I'd suggest it'...1. and 2. are fair enough. I'd suggest it's pushing bit to say that "many" enjoy the Staggers. It's normally a hard core of old stagers. Nor are branch meetings "dominated" by formal proceedings (unless you've been going to different ones to me). Indeed locally we have made a conscious effort to reduce the amount of formal business and have other events such as a quiz or one of those dreaded "Meet the Brewer" nights which, despite your quite insulting dismissal, are popular and continue to be a positive attraction. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-76777285888791896692016-08-22T14:38:13.036+01:002016-08-22T14:38:13.036+01:00Don't agree. The collection of scores is only ...Don't agree. The collection of scores is only an ancillary purpose, and it also needs to be borne in mind that all the scores given on a stagger are aggregated into one for GBG selection purposes. The good pubs don't need it, while it will make no difference to the pubs that aren't candidates anyway.<br /><br />I'd say the objectives are:<br /><br />1. Maintaining coverage of the pubs, so that each pub is visited by CAMRA on a regular basis. This feeds into WhatPub as well as providing general news.<br /><br />2. Providing a regular article for "Opening Times".<br /><br />3. Offering a social event which many enjoy. It gives people an opportunity to come together, whereas branch meetings are dominated by formal proceedings, and at Pub of the Month presentations people tend to sit together with their usual companions.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26153061521862300162016-08-22T12:04:29.656+01:002016-08-22T12:04:29.656+01:00There is a of conceit here which is disingenuous a...There is a of conceit here which is disingenuous and used only to support your view that the young do not like pubs or that those not joining you do not like pubs.<br /><br />You describe them as organised pub crawls. They are first and foremost beer surveying/scoring exercises, in so far as the purpose is to collect beer scores (for good beer guide selection). They are different to how you might organise a pub crawl if you were doing so with friends. Every real ale pub in a defined area must be visited.<br /><br />This distinction is important. It is why the stagger involves a half of Hobgoblin in a Toby Carvery, executed with haste. An establishment you would not take in on an evening with friends unless you wished to dine there. The area may have more pubs than a comfortable night out and become a route march of swift halves of mediocre beer to get the area done in an evening. The group leader setting a pace incompatible with an enjoyable evening.<br /><br />If there is ambiguity in the plan or not enough pubs additional pubs may be chosen but scoring comes first. An appealing pub will have enough scores, so the logic of the purpose lends itself instead to go score the poorer pub. <br /><br />To claim that by not enjoying one of your staggers is akin to not enjoying pubs or all the pubs visited is therefore disingenuous. Not enjoying your stagger is just that, not enjoying your stagger. You hint at this by accepting Staggers were once hard work. Enjoying a pub is never hard work, your staggers still can be.<br /><br />The age profile of the group is older but I did not find that off putting. You are all a charming group of people. The narrow appeal of an evening focused on campaigning duty rather than fun lends itself to meeting the more strident campaigner but again, more interesting than off putting. I can honestly say I’ve never met a CAMRA member that I disliked. Some I thought odd, but never disliked. Should the new face not like the beer in a pub and have a Guinness, he will meet the long standing campaigner that thinks keg is evil. A discussion of the man’s choice will ensue.<br /><br />Where you ought to be concerned is the new face who as Bailey points out may be looking for a social group to join and think you guys are just on a pub crawl. Men make friends at school, university but rarely middle age. That guy might become part of the group and volunteer for a job at your next festival. He might also wander off. It is possible to put that guy off further involvement if the evening isn’t actually a decent night out. If it is hard work it isn't a decent night out. Maybe end the conceit that it is a social event, just a pub crawl?<br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-61688408745491274092016-08-22T11:50:57.192+01:002016-08-22T11:50:57.192+01:00Surely it's only natural that if you pursue a ...Surely it's only natural that if you pursue a particular hobby you're likely to want to socialise with others who share your interest, and in the case of beer you can kill two birds with one stone.<br /><br />On the other hand, I've never really understood the appeal of socialising with work colleagues - don't you already see enough of them at work?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-62165195561880596712016-08-22T10:35:16.705+01:002016-08-22T10:35:16.705+01:00What I'm now asking myself is why, for a coupl...What I'm now asking myself is why, for a couple of decades, people were so keen to spend nights out with fellow CAMRA members rather than school/college/university pals, people they worked with, or members of their own family. Those are the kinds of people I usually go to the pub with and it often takes me to pubs I wouldn't go to off my own bat because they're not beer geeks.<br /><br />I do struggle to see the appeal of pub crawling with a bunch of strangers with whom my only connection is that we're all a bit obsessive about beer and pubs. If I moved alone to a new town, maybe, I guess?Baileyhttp://boakandbailey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53619294950161656022016-08-22T10:23:30.126+01:002016-08-22T10:23:30.126+01:00It's been mentioned by several people over the...It's been mentioned by several people over the years that the relentless ID'ing of younger drinkers is a big turn-off too.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-9677767551569300022016-08-22T10:04:17.300+01:002016-08-22T10:04:17.300+01:00I'm very conscious of seeing very few youngste...I'm very conscious of seeing very few youngsters in pubs now. I wouldn't dismiss the effects of the health lobby, but I think social media is having a much bigger impact. Remember the things you did at 18, then imagine everyone around you having a good quality camera and sending photographs straight to all your friends and co-workers.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09380346096519389990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-71976031231562946822016-08-22T09:51:20.050+01:002016-08-22T09:51:20.050+01:00I used to enjoy the old-style staggers with their ...I used to enjoy the old-style staggers with their "we do see life" aspect, but it has to be admitted they involved some pretty grim pubs and beers at times. It's rare now that any Stagger involves more than seven pubs in an evening.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-51347115022859979102016-08-22T09:19:00.198+01:002016-08-22T09:19:00.198+01:00Obviously I agree with all of that, but then I lik...Obviously I agree with all of that, but then I like going to different places full stop. Stockport has great pubs, modest hills, characterful branch members and decent beers. That wouldn't stop many folk preferring to spend the evening in the same pub, whether that was a multi-beer free house or a Holts boozer.<br /><br />Ten halves of bitter won't save a struggling pub, but does at least give the message to pubs that CAMRA isn't just about multi-beer free houses (that's right, isn't it ?).retiredmartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429804437739227082noreply@blogger.com