tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post3769577912013667188..comments2024-03-29T08:01:51.705+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: A mixed blessingCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-28925680189459254852018-08-29T17:52:44.785+01:002018-08-29T17:52:44.785+01:00Nay, you might be a National Treasure, Staffo, but...Nay, you might be a National Treasure, Staffo, but I'm talking about how times change, and why business models fail. Whether those changes are good or bad is another discussion, our lad.Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-4462171747026325052018-08-29T10:25:22.217+01:002018-08-29T10:25:22.217+01:00Timbo,
Are you suggesting that I'm a dinosaur ...Timbo,<br />Are you suggesting that I'm a dinosaur ? The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-36966799873896100622018-08-28T11:35:56.995+01:002018-08-28T11:35:56.995+01:00Staffo, the working class as we once knew them are...Staffo, the working class as we once knew them are quickly becoming extinct. Some survivors still run pubs though. But the fact that they often think just as you do is a bigger reason why so many are closing than the smoking ban, I'd say. Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-66916529904548448412018-08-28T08:54:36.256+01:002018-08-28T08:54:36.256+01:00Timbo,
Yes, indeed, putting a menu outside a prope...Timbo,<br />Yes, indeed, putting a menu outside a proper pub would be a bit like putting a carpet in its public bar. The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30734735626044099912018-08-27T18:08:44.680+01:002018-08-27T18:08:44.680+01:00We English are a strangely inconsistent bunch. We ...We English are a strangely inconsistent bunch. We accept that running a pub, rightly, is a classless profession. You - generally - get middle class people running them for anyone who might come in, and t' wekkin' class running 'em for t' wekkin' class. Restaurants, on the other hand, many of us expect to be run by middle class people, unless its a sit-down chippy or a greasy spoon. So maybe if a working class publican put a menu outside his pub, he might be afraid that he would be judged by his peers as Acting Above His Station, and as Not Knowing His Place? (and don't try to tell me that the working class are not far more judgemental of each other in that way than the middlies are of them, thanks.)Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-57650138224900469532018-08-27T17:39:36.089+01:002018-08-27T17:39:36.089+01:00Not all of do. I rarely stay for more than a few...Not all of do. I rarely stay for more than a few minutes in a pub where there is no one behind the bar.<br /><br />Mind you I did once wait half an hour for a bus in The Bluebell near Tissington without being bothered by the landlord. Ate my sandwiches, drank my coffee, helped myself to a nip of whisky, put a couple of bottles of beer and some crisps in my rucsac. (The last are untrue but I could have)dcbwhaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585310584555592882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-1500647312874397772018-08-27T16:15:50.652+01:002018-08-27T16:15:50.652+01:00"But a publican is doing you a great favour b..."But a publican is doing you a great favour by allowing you to drink in his pub, and you will do it on his terms."<br /><br />I think many publicans believe that and that's why they are failed businessmen.<br /><br />Never figured out why the beer bods accept it, though.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69923912339703463882018-08-27T05:47:45.736+01:002018-08-27T05:47:45.736+01:00"Another source of annoyance is pubs failing ..."Another source of annoyance is pubs failing to display their menus outside" but maybe that's because they're as unsightly on the front of pubs as they are on pub tables.<br />You don't need a menu for pickled eggs ! The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30633289064707404252018-08-26T15:44:42.721+01:002018-08-26T15:44:42.721+01:00David Brown touches on it if you ask me. It's ...David Brown touches on it if you ask me. It's maybe more to do with being able to close early on quiet nights though. As for the menus outside, there are so many ways in which some pubs cling to outdated ideas of "authenticity", perhaps rooted in "knowing your place"? You tell me.Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-64465991425090853502018-08-26T15:17:53.019+01:002018-08-26T15:17:53.019+01:00Yes, I find it baffling too. Especially when pubs ...Yes, I find it baffling too. Especially when pubs have gone to considerable effort to create web and Facebook pages and post full menus online.<br /><br />On that subject, another source of annoyance is pubs failing to display their menus outside. Restaurants do it, so why not pubs?<br /><br />I have some sympathy with DCB's view that pubs continue to believe that the normal rules of retail businesses don't apply to them.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-45992998710461087272018-08-26T12:46:14.415+01:002018-08-26T12:46:14.415+01:00All that said though the odd part is that even the...All that said though the odd part is that even the pubs that seem well run and actually stick to pretty consistent hours don't post them. A restaurant owner I know says that sticking to set hours is one of the most important things a restaurant can do. I still find it odd that pubs that stick to their opening times don't post them. Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04039590363732278703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-43191076221292310652018-08-26T11:25:46.470+01:002018-08-26T11:25:46.470+01:00David,
"Doing you a great favour ..... and yo...David,<br />"Doing you a great favour ..... and you will do it on his terms" is how it is going to my doctor - but he gets £151 a patient per year no matter how he treats them all. The NHS isn't all it's cracked up to be. The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69599064998571334862018-08-25T21:44:19.275+01:002018-08-25T21:44:19.275+01:00Presumably so that they don't have to open up ...Presumably so that they don't have to open up if they don't feel like it. The pub trade is unlike other retail where the benefits are mutual.<br />But a publican is doing you a great favour by allowing you to drink in his pub, and you will do it on his terms.dcbwhaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585310584555592882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-2388021562199224032018-08-25T20:18:33.010+01:002018-08-25T20:18:33.010+01:00"Touché", I hear the Bemulletted One mur..."Touché", I hear the Bemulletted One murmur, Staffo.Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38371655907746766642018-08-25T13:38:40.897+01:002018-08-25T13:38:40.897+01:00Why don't pubs list their hours? This fact al...Why don't pubs list their hours? This fact always has seemed odd to me.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04039590363732278703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38343776216142135622018-08-25T12:57:28.164+01:002018-08-25T12:57:28.164+01:00Timbo,
I'm sure that dogs haven't given We...Timbo,<br />I'm sure that dogs haven't given Wetherspoons the bad publicity that rodents regularly have. The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-51452650366590795272018-08-25T11:09:17.378+01:002018-08-25T11:09:17.378+01:00Having been a a market trader briefly in the 1970s...Having been a a market trader briefly in the 1970s, the pubs around the market place prevented all your customers disappearing if there were a sudden sharp shower, or if people just needed to warm up on a freezing cold day. It's an all-year-round business, remember David. There are a number of good reasons.Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-82035745651952702332018-08-25T08:39:34.046+01:002018-08-25T08:39:34.046+01:00I think that one of the reasons pubs had longer ho...I think that one of the reasons pubs had longer hours on market days was to provide places where a deal could be clinched, paper work sorted; and, of course wet down the transaction.dcbwhaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02585310584555592882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-2723112243432578562018-08-24T22:32:35.184+01:002018-08-24T22:32:35.184+01:00Point taken Staffo. It doesn't apply in this p...Point taken Staffo. It doesn't apply in this particular case, being a several-tiny-roomed pub, but generally you nail it there I'd say. Incidentally, I see that there's been a sudden press feeding frenzy about the Spoon's dog policy? Maybe the supertanker of social attitude is slowly turning?Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-91955233506220549422018-08-24T21:41:41.006+01:002018-08-24T21:41:41.006+01:00The 1978 GBG says Otley pubs could open until 4 on...The 1978 GBG says Otley pubs could open until 4 on Mondays and Fridays (except bank holidays), but makes no mention of any market day extension in Skipton.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-72282796420957067892018-08-24T21:32:04.527+01:002018-08-24T21:32:04.527+01:00KJP,
No. I often used the Smithfield pubs with the...KJP,<br />No. I often used the Smithfield pubs with their 5am to 9am licenses and no proof was needed.<br />There were usually more bummarees in their blood stained work clothes than other drinkers in the Hope and the Cock Tavern but not in the Fox & Anchor and Newmarket.<br />They were four very different pubs, the Hope with a lovely Victorian interior, the Cock with the best possible breakfasts including kidneys and bubble and squeak in a subterranean rebuild after the infamous 1958 Poultry Market fire, the Fox and Anchor the most upmarket with the best beer and the Newmarket a Punch pub not worth bothering with.<br />Youngs in the Hope, Bombardier and a breakfast in the Cock and Adnams in the Fox and Anchor was a great start to the day before a 10am meeting at Waterloo - then it was a couple of minutes walk to the long established Hole in the Wall at lunchtime.<br />Happy days. The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-52487279718055736952018-08-24T21:22:48.681+01:002018-08-24T21:22:48.681+01:00I wrote a blogpost a few years ago about market ex...I wrote a blogpost a few years ago about market extensions entitled <a href="http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2011/02/market-daze.html" rel="nofollow">Market Daze</a>. I was never really in much of a position to take advantage of this, but I wondered to what extent it really did draw visitors to the town, especially when the extension was in the week.<br /><br />I'd guess the reason Skipton and Otley have more pubs is that they were long-established market towns, while Ilkley is a more modern spa town.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30004349310322097202018-08-24T21:11:34.590+01:002018-08-24T21:11:34.590+01:00Timbo,
That's the problem with nearly all pubs...Timbo,<br />That's the problem with nearly all pubs having been knocked through into one room.<br />Diners eating in the Lounge and strapping men in high viz jackets letting off steam in the Bar would work very well. The Stafford Mudgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-70475048500459231522018-08-24T19:48:18.017+01:002018-08-24T19:48:18.017+01:00Very interesting piece, as always. There were cert...Very interesting piece, as always. There were certain anomalies in the opening laws, if I remember correctly. I live between the market towns of Otley and Skipton (in Yorkshire). There the pubs were allowed to open all afternoon on market days. This made these towns "destination" towns for folk wanting a day out with all day drinking. Indeed both towns had many more pubs than nearby non-market towns (e.g. Ilkley where I live). Even to this day both seem to have a much larger pub estates than their respective population would normally justify. So perhaps that faint shadow of the past law lives on today in these modern day places.Ilkley Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12812726385752243112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-41194537602161086012018-08-24T19:17:21.898+01:002018-08-24T19:17:21.898+01:00Thanks, you have cleared up something that was puz...Thanks, you have cleared up something that was puzzling me. My children were born in 1991 and 1993 and I remember outings on a Sunday when I wished we could have had a drink in the garden of a country pub before going home around 5pm. Did not realise Sunday deregulation was later than 1988.<br /><br />Also remember a certain pub open on Sunday afternoons because of a restaurant licence; only food was crisps and peanuts.<br /><br />Used to leave cinema at 10.15pm; decent pub next door. But shut at 10.30 better to drive 10 mins to next area where it was 11.00pm.<br /><br />Bar in France, where I live, (also tabac) open from 7.00 am but shut by 8.00 pm except July and August. Also shut Mondays except for those two months.<br /><br />Used to stop for a couple of pints on way home from work, just after 6.00 pm in a very middle class area. Lot of men standing and chatting and by 7.00 bar was empty. Sure, later customers, maybe even same but a “wave”.<br />Did have a beer at 7.00 am at Gare de Lyon after a slow night train; did not feel like 7.00 am to me but barman gave me a look.<br /><br />There were pubs open earlier than that near commercial markets like Smithfield where work ended at 5.00 am. Not sure if you needed proof of employment to get served.<br />KJPnoreply@blogger.com