tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post7706633881349264831..comments2024-03-28T17:11:52.333+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Can this be for real?Curmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-54993912478478803202016-11-28T14:53:36.131+00:002016-11-28T14:53:36.131+00:00First
I agree of course as you point out (and mor...First<br /><br />I agree of course as you point out (and more importantly to all the other issues), that most CAMRA and non CAMRA would expect a clear beverage from a can. Thus you point out a consumer expectation that CAMRA is not necessarily supporting. I do believe that CAMRA have jumped into this too quickly as I do not think that most British beers should go anywhere near a can as they can be ruined by their sediment, whereas my opinion of continental beers is that is less of an issue. <br /><br />On the real stuff: apologies as I am probably reading to far but I did not mean to come across as I did. <br /><br />I read that cans were inappropriate due to the potential haze generated linked with the question the ability for secondary fermentation. <br /><br />What I was trying to say is that surely for those adhering to CAMRA defs, this is a mute point as it is not a core part of the definition and fermentation does occur? <br /><br />Time will tell on the gimmick.<br />Moietyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14832442956494022918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-90853773270079890252016-11-28T13:12:46.865+00:002016-11-28T13:12:46.865+00:00I'm not saying it's not real ale according...I'm not saying it's not real ale according to the CAMRA definition. What I am saying is that it's a silly gimmick of limited appeal.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-31787002605704196142016-11-28T13:10:11.237+00:002016-11-28T13:10:11.237+00:00I agree and disagree.
Clearly I do think most can...I agree and disagree.<br /><br />Clearly I do think most can drinkers (CAMRA or otherwise) do expect a clear drink from a can. Thus CAMRAs push for hazy beers from can is somewhat counter to what the consumer is probably expecting. <br /><br />However just because you end up with a cloudy or hazy beer does not exclude it from real ale. Indeed the "strict (TIC)" definition that CAMRA uses would only put clarity on the served perfectly list. Indeed it does not appear on their "about real ale" page. There has been a definite move to ask beer festivals etc to advertise their beer when they are deliberately cloudy, as cloudy. <br />Clearly bottle/cask conditioned Weiss beers are considered real ale. Thus from CAMRAs working definition while contrary to how many feel about what real ale should look like, clearly it is in line. <br /><br />What this all means however is somewhat different. I find that the sediment in Belgium and Dutch beers play a more nuance role if added to the beer. Sure you have an increase in yeastiness etc but that is often not very pronounced in my opinion . It is lost behind the strength (I am one of the iron tummy group and I tend to prefer the extra mouth feel but not always). British beers on the other had tend to have quite bitter tasting sediment. This put me off many British bottled beers when i moved here from Holland. <br /><br />Thus I think real ale in a can is certainly possible and is in line with CAMRA definitions. However I am not sure you would want to can every real ale as CAMRA seem to be alluding to. Moietyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14832442956494022918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38539896047934537882016-10-07T21:10:28.067+01:002016-10-07T21:10:28.067+01:00I prefer some canned beer - I was in Belgium recen...I prefer some canned beer - I was in Belgium recently and discovered Leffe Brun in cans, which was bloody wonderful. Over here, you can only find the bottled stuff, which is nothing special in my opinion.<br /><br />Many bottled beers are too fizzy and thin compared to their draught and canned equivalents. You might as well be drinking Coca Cola. Cans often get the smoothness right, with the fizz still being there but in a different, but much better way.<br /><br />If anyone knows where I can get Leffe Brun cans over here please tell!Andy.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-31042220229738876222016-10-05T20:20:01.491+01:002016-10-05T20:20:01.491+01:00Different, maybe, but better? Not necessarily. And...Different, maybe, but better? Not necessarily. And does it make any difference whether it has conditioned in the cask or at the brewery? Of course not.<br /><br />Unfortunately, anyone who understands anything about brewing knows that "real ale" is just a silly myth. pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-61404641112252053972016-10-05T18:15:17.707+01:002016-10-05T18:15:17.707+01:00You are correct that there is no difference betwee...You are correct that there is no difference between C02 from whatever source. C02 is C02. Its the process that gets you there that's different. A beer that's sat in a cask with live yeast for a fortnight is going to taste different. If you have a look at this:<br /><br />https://thornbridge.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/the-beauty-of-cask-beer/<br /><br />you'll also see that brewers alter their process and even ingredients as far back as the mash to optimise the beer for its intended format. <br /><br />Its seldom, if ever, the case that keg beer is carbonated equal or less than cask. Levels of carbonation effect ph, mouthfeel and perception of bitterness.LiamTheBrewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343568963519802907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-12157467972740246222016-10-05T17:41:16.755+01:002016-10-05T17:41:16.755+01:00Oh dear i'm not sure this py character drinks ...Oh dear i'm not sure this py character drinks real ale Before you know where we are these people will have us back drinking the likes of Tavern keg or Whitbread Tankard. Who on earth wants to drink gassed up beers craft or otherwise in silly littlevcans !!!Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-73809514864957548412016-10-05T17:35:10.397+01:002016-10-05T17:35:10.397+01:00Be quiet, Py.
You bandy-legged whore.Be quiet, Py.<br /><br />You bandy-legged whore.kevin websternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-89221317166199023132016-10-05T16:47:52.643+01:002016-10-05T16:47:52.643+01:00You're just talking about levels of carbonatio...You're just talking about levels of carbonation. That's not the same thing at all. There is no reason why artificial carbonation has to produce a higher volume of CO2. <br /><br />There is no difference between the CO2 produced from artificial carbonation and from secondary fermentation. The bubbles are the same size, basic physics will tell you that.pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53290038377844052652016-10-05T15:30:58.385+01:002016-10-05T15:30:58.385+01:00There is no such thing as good CO2 or bad CO2. Tha...There is no such thing as good CO2 or bad CO2. That's why the cask breather thing is simply incorrect. That being said cask conditioned beer does taste different from force carbed beer. Firstly there is a small flavour contribution from the yeast, particularly if the beer is re-seeded. Secondly force carbed beer generally has a much higher volume of CO2 than cask beer and that has a distinct impact on flavour (some people describe it as carbonic bight). Thirdly the time spent spent in the cask allows flavours to meld in a way that does not happen in force carbed beer. In addition some brewers use a different strain of yeast in cask than they do if they have a keg version of 'the same' beer and alter their mash profile to achieve a different extract level. Thornbridge are a prime example as mentioned here: https://thornbridge.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/the-beauty-of-cask-beer/LiamTheBrewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343568963519802907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-86206583108764221672016-10-05T15:27:25.950+01:002016-10-05T15:27:25.950+01:00I'd agree that the carbonation from a beer tha...I'd agree that the carbonation from a beer that has undergone a proper secondary fermentation is distinctly different from that in a force-carbonated beer.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-42503673433460724352016-10-05T15:13:13.435+01:002016-10-05T15:13:13.435+01:00You should try some of my homebrews if you think y...You should try some of my homebrews if you think you can generalize about the carbonation levels in bottle conditioned beer! I've had a few batches where they ran the gamut from flat to all over the ceiling.<br />DaveShttp://brewinabedsit.blogspot.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26413143796223391182016-10-05T15:10:13.474+01:002016-10-05T15:10:13.474+01:00Whoops. Whoops. LiamTheBrewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343568963519802907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-82786873940055331602016-10-05T14:55:36.732+01:002016-10-05T14:55:36.732+01:00That's not at all true. Artificial carbonation...That's not at all true. Artificial carbonation is a forced process and the levels of carbon dioxide in solution are usually much higher than with a natural carbonation and give rise to an entirely different mouthfeel in most cases when the CO2 comes out of solution simply because the bubbles are bigger. For example, the difference between Champagne and artificially carbonated fizz is pronounced. The same is true for genuine bottle conditioned beers and I don't mean those that describe them selves so and actually just contain a bit of yeast to top up the brewery tank conditioning.electricpicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144970068645280352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-75287425600331725552016-10-05T13:46:57.068+01:002016-10-05T13:46:57.068+01:00Its not like anyone can actually taste the differe...Its not like anyone can actually taste the difference between CO2 from fermentation and CO2 added artificially, so what does it really matter?pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-75916684565736303712016-10-05T13:40:25.249+01:002016-10-05T13:40:25.249+01:00Yes they do have a magic numberYes they do have a magic numberSat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-15532948776805506502016-10-05T13:34:07.925+01:002016-10-05T13:34:07.925+01:00Thanks, fair dos. I'll take it as I find it.Thanks, fair dos. I'll take it as I find it.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-86978025376247822252016-10-05T13:28:56.443+01:002016-10-05T13:28:56.443+01:00The trouble is, CAMRA have historically been prett...The trouble is, CAMRA have historically been pretty happy to let people run with the idea that extraneous CO2 (even from cask breathers) is inherently evil and natural conditioning is inherently good when it suits them, so it'd be difficult now for them to turn around and say that actually on this occasion live yeast and natural conditioning are a bad thing. I guess I am impressed that they're sticking by their definition at the cost of prejudices of the traditionalists, though.<br /><br />As far as can-conditioning goes, it doesn't bother me either way. I don't really care where the CO2 in a canned beer came from, but nor am I particularly bothered by beers like Revival coming out murky. I quite like pale, dry beers with lots of resinous hop flavour, and the best tasting examples of that style that I've tried over the last few years have generally had some level of haze, so like a lot of drinkers I'd treat it as a normal feature of the style. So far none of these beers, including the can conditioned ones, have given me the shits, fwiw.DaveShttp://brewinabedsit.blogspot.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-59781961201661928962016-10-05T12:47:00.715+01:002016-10-05T12:47:00.715+01:00As the sheer brass neck of this request made me ch...As the sheer brass neck of this request made me chuckle I will oblige. As a reward for your blog saying you don't like a thing you haven't tried, and doubting the veracity of the thing you haven't tried, I will send you free samples of that thing so you can try it despite the fact that we will accrue no obvious benefit from it. If you email me at darran@moorbeer.co.uk and tell me what styles of beer you enjoy, I will send you a few cans. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07120870984811147173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-73161191798155919712016-10-05T11:52:27.374+01:002016-10-05T11:52:27.374+01:00Fair point, more than happy to oblige.
If Moor wa...Fair point, more than happy to oblige.<br /><br />If Moor want to send me some cans for review, please get in touch using the e-mail address in the sidebar.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-83810530897458671932016-10-05T11:40:30.350+01:002016-10-05T11:40:30.350+01:00Here's an idea. I see 16 comments without a si...Here's an idea. I see 16 comments without a single person saying that they have tried the cans. Why not give them a go and see what you think? Cooking Lager, why don't you try Revival, a 3.8% pale bitter, or Raw, a 4.3% best bitter? The fact that so many real ale traditionalists will happily drink filtered, brewery conditioned bottles and 'brite' beer on handpull, and will argue that key-keg or canned beer, which actually fits the definition of real ale doesn't count. It's obvious that this is for cultural and aesthetic reasons rather than anything to do with the beer itself. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07120870984811147173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-84563295722183794142016-10-05T09:24:47.624+01:002016-10-05T09:24:47.624+01:00There is a different customer profile with trendy ...There is a different customer profile with trendy craft cans to trad bitter. A fair number of trad bitter drinkers may usually drink clear canned an bottled beer and try a bottled ale with “camra says” and be disappointed with cloudy contents. The people paying £3 for a 330ml can are expecting something different. Most likely a high alcohol, high hopped beer concentrate. Murk is not a fault to this punter so complaints are less likely.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-67122473747109234372016-10-05T08:56:42.648+01:002016-10-05T08:56:42.648+01:00Maybe he just has different tastes to you? Moor ma...Maybe he just has different tastes to you? Moor make quite distinctive beer, very different to that brewed by any of the others listed (with the exception of Fullers).<br /><br />How come Kevin Webster isn't banned? Childish and unnecessary comments like that give this website a bad reputation.pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88944434275972424442016-10-05T07:32:02.155+01:002016-10-05T07:32:02.155+01:00Needs a warning on the can:
LOOKS LIKE SHIT - GIVE...Needs a warning on the can:<br />LOOKS LIKE SHIT - GIVES YOU THE SHITSBastard Pandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-90551668907867112162016-10-05T07:30:14.427+01:002016-10-05T07:30:14.427+01:00@Ben - not that you're a massive beer snob, or...@Ben - not that you're a massive beer snob, or anything...Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.com