tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post9165996758218501415..comments2024-03-29T08:01:51.705+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Secret historyCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-9523711734155805282013-06-26T20:08:12.741+01:002013-06-26T20:08:12.741+01:00Curmudgeon,
missed your point about our bitter in ...Curmudgeon,<br />missed your point about our bitter in 1984. You are probably correct. I wasn't head brewer then so had to do what I was told. <br /><br />Maybe you should retry Okells Bitter in Rigbys in Liverpool.<br /><br />But I'm guessing you probably haveAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14053201635654879630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-16007080999334858722013-06-26T16:43:31.149+01:002013-06-26T16:43:31.149+01:00"The hops were all British 2 hop additions on..."The hops were all British 2 hop additions one at boil one in hop back. Can not remember the varieties though"<br /><br />A hop back addition? Already sounds 1,000,000 times better than most draught lagers today...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-44714217523607358652013-06-19T23:06:57.452+01:002013-06-19T23:06:57.452+01:00Yes but that would be cask beer of course, long be...Yes but that would be cask beer of course, long before Watneys went down the route of raw adjuncts and enzymes and of course abandoning cask all together in favour of Keg and Tank Beer. So the recipe has changed dramatically over the years. How is one to know what the recipe really isMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01039022381749059323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-46378233783899013272013-06-19T07:27:09.921+01:002013-06-19T07:27:09.921+01:00Good point. You would think there will be a recipe...Good point. You would think there will be a recipe somewhere. This is what Andrew Campbell had to say about Red Barrel in The Book of Beer, published I think in 1956:<br /><br />"...a medium-strong pale ale, a little below the gravity of the national beers*, not very bitter, yet not sweet"<br /><br />I think that might be a polite way of saying pleasant but dull.<br /><br />* by which he meant the likes of Draught BassJohn Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-65633385905692158622013-06-19T01:42:44.368+01:002013-06-19T01:42:44.368+01:00Probably right John but it would be nice if they c...Probably right John but it would be nice if they could find the recipe for orginal Red Barrel. It was Red that started using unmalted barley and enzymes.kaiserhoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18214148630816519490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-56520622837396076682013-06-18T22:39:06.649+01:002013-06-18T22:39:06.649+01:00"I remember (I think) in 1973 in Douglas IoM ..."I remember (I think) in 1973 in Douglas IoM having a pint of Red Barrel", bit ironic really as I am brewing on the IoM now and was one of the last persons to brew "Watneys Red" the son of Red Barrel<br /><br />yes you woulsd indeed get all malt Okells and Castletown an rember brewed in accordance with IoM purity laws. Okells would not have been allowwed to brew Red as it had Raw barleyMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01039022381749059323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-81257574108316616462013-06-18T12:40:28.536+01:002013-06-18T12:40:28.536+01:00I'd regularly buy half-pint bottles to take ho...I'd regularly buy half-pint bottles to take home at the end of the night usually barley wine or White Shield, which was only available in pubs. Barstaff often took some persuading to sell them unopened, only giving in if you offered to pay an extra 10p to cover the deposit on the bottle.Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-67424268702690711392013-06-18T08:35:35.578+01:002013-06-18T08:35:35.578+01:00Of course in those days you'd get all-malt rea...Of course in those days you'd get all-malt real ale in all the 100-odd Okells and Castletown tied pubs on the Island, but very little of it on Douglas Promenade.<br /><br />Having said that, I remember visiting the IoM in 1984 and finding the beer nothing special and the pubs in general grotty and run-down.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55556334556463989362013-06-18T08:19:22.729+01:002013-06-18T08:19:22.729+01:00I remember (I think) in 1973 in Douglas IoM having...I remember (I think) in 1973 in Douglas IoM having a pint of Red Barrel in the bar of a sea front hotel. I remember as I was chucked out for not being a resident, it being after 11 o'clock. No idea what it tasted like, though I do remember on the same holiday having Worthington E and Double Diamond which I quite liked.<br /><br />I was interested in beer even then, but there were more pressing attractions. English girls!Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-51005645903803687962013-06-18T06:56:42.594+01:002013-06-18T06:56:42.594+01:00Yes but using the highest quality ingredients woul...Yes but using the highest quality ingredients would not get you the same beer so any comparison would be false. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-91916653069646190682013-06-18T00:59:37.483+01:002013-06-18T00:59:37.483+01:00I think it was a decent kegged bitter but the move...I think it was a decent kegged bitter but the move to unmalted barley and various chemicals ruined it. Talk about corporate irresponsiblilty. <br /><br />I would like to see two things. Someone brew red barrell on cask for the UK and I would like one our micros to brew it on keg. Of course the highest quality ingredients must be used.kaiserhoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18214148630816519490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-46471666356370209652013-06-17T20:17:28.742+01:002013-06-17T20:17:28.742+01:00That would be me then as I have the required facia...That would be me then as I have the required facial hair. Problem is I don't have the recipe. From memory was 60 % Pale Ale Malt 40% Raw Barley, a bit of torriefied barley for colour, enzymes. The hops were all British 2 hop additions one at boil one in hop back. Can not remember the varieties thoughMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01039022381749059323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26622656375356396822013-06-17T16:25:20.771+01:002013-06-17T16:25:20.771+01:00@Cookie, interesting point. I never actually got t...@Cookie, interesting point. I never actually got to try Red Barrel as it was just before my time in drinking terms but I did try Starlight which, as I said above, was vile. Perhaps we should persuade some craft keg brewer with ironic facial hair to obtain the recipe and make some, so that we can all make a final judgement.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88279232883393081352013-06-17T14:08:05.103+01:002013-06-17T14:08:05.103+01:00Sorry guys, not sure I trust your judgement. As yo...Sorry guys, not sure I trust your judgement. As you would all describe delicious ice cold fizzy Carling as crap, I can no longer trust anything else you all say is crap.<br /><br />Left pondering whether the much maligned red barrel was in fact one of the greatest under appreciated beers. A craft keg before its time. The greatest beer never to win an award.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-50533873106385200432013-06-16T23:07:03.733+01:002013-06-16T23:07:03.733+01:00Yes Watneys used continuous fermentation at the Mo...Yes Watneys used continuous fermentation at the Mortlake plant in London. The scientific idea was fine but was was plagued by problems of infections by wort bacteria and immense flavour problems. They spent about 5 years trying to perfect it then abanded it<br /><br />Curmodgeon yes it was used there as well following the Watneys technique, the reason why Runcorn did not last was labour / Union problems, a very militant work force which cost them all their jobs in the endMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01039022381749059323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-21628043029393327492013-06-16T19:23:47.750+01:002013-06-16T19:23:47.750+01:00Continuous fermentation was tried large scale in B...Continuous fermentation was tried large scale in Britain but ran into problems and was discontinued. It's only currently used large scale in New Zealand, and the beer is foul. <br /><br />I can also say that light ale on shelves hasn't totally died out round my way either, Courage Light Ale is still on the shelves of a few pubs I drink in. I also saw someone drinkig bottled Guinness in a pub recently, though I don't know if it had come from the fridge or not. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55431154635343710822013-06-16T11:42:02.221+01:002013-06-16T11:42:02.221+01:00It was reputed to have been used at the long-defun...It was reputed to have been used at the long-defunct Bass brewery at Runcorn. What a folly that turned out to be - I don't think it even lasted twenty years!Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-58000441158184261872013-06-16T11:21:42.979+01:002013-06-16T11:21:42.979+01:00Btw, Mike it's interesting to read your recoll...Btw, Mike it's interesting to read your recollections about Watney's use of industrial enzymes to convert the starches in raw barley into fermentable sugars.<br /><br />Did Watney's ever carry out trials on continuous fermentation? the other supposed "Holy Grail" of cutting brewing costs. I know that some breweries looked at this back in the early 70's, but I don't know whether this was here in the UK, or somewhere abroad. I did read though that the finished product was virtually undrinkable!Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-2066202167083653592013-06-16T11:10:37.685+01:002013-06-16T11:10:37.685+01:00"Watney's Red was virtually undrinkable i..."Watney's Red was virtually undrinkable if you were used to good beer." - I was only 17 at the time Mike, so I didn't really know any better. Fortunately there weren't many Watney pubs in the part of East Kent where I grew up.<br /><br />Besides, it wasn't that long before I discovered the delights of cask-conditioned Trophy Bitter, (based on the old Fremlins Three Star Bitter in our part of the country), and I never really looked back.Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38581141118219954072013-06-16T10:48:18.093+01:002013-06-16T10:48:18.093+01:00When I started drinking my pint of choice was Cour...When I started drinking my pint of choice was Courage Tavern (drunk in the Queens Head in Newark). Can't remember what is was like apart from dim recollections of a full bodied sweetness. I only tried Red a couple of times and it was just sweet and fizzy. Mudge beat me to it in comparing it to Smithwicks and I think he's right there.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-63806192129505427172013-06-16T00:10:18.334+01:002013-06-16T00:10:18.334+01:00Anybody remember Watneys Starlight? Christ that wa...Anybody remember Watneys Starlight? Christ that was horribleBillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-54741522605123104502013-06-15T21:41:37.422+01:002013-06-15T21:41:37.422+01:00Watney's Red was virtually undrinkable if you ...Watney's Red was virtually undrinkable if you were used to good beer. It was brewed with a large percentage of raw barley , rather than malt, then industrial enzymes were added to help break the raw barley starch into sugar. I brewed it for 2 years believe meAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14053201635654879630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-21603919170827353112013-06-15T20:21:24.110+01:002013-06-15T20:21:24.110+01:00As someone who started drinking in the early 70...As someone who started drinking in the early 70's, I must have drunk all the "Big Six" keg beers in my time. Courage Tavern, Allied Double Diamond, Bass Charrington Worthington E, Whitbread Tankard, Younger's Tartan and yes, even Watney's Red!<br /><br />When you're an impressionable 17 year old who doesn't know anything about beer, but you've seen these beers advertised, then you go with them. Back then there wasn't much in the way of point of sale material for a brewer's ordinary cask mild or bitter, so it was a no-brainer to opt for the keg brands.<br /><br />From memory, none of them were undrinkable, but they were rather gassy and left one feeling somewhat bloated, especially after two or three pints! They were also slightly on the sweet side, but that's not something which would bother an inexperienced beer drinker with an immature palate.<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-66524661835714696732013-06-15T16:49:26.739+01:002013-06-15T16:49:26.739+01:00I wonder if there is a clone recipe of the origina...I wonder if there is a clone recipe of the original Red Barrel? I suspect there is a serviceable beer, if quality ingredients are used. I also wonder what it would be like on cask.kaiserhoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18214148630816519490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-3716831688294759132013-06-15T16:34:13.184+01:002013-06-15T16:34:13.184+01:00When I went away to college in 1972, nearly all be...When I went away to college in 1972, nearly all beer, including real ale, was served through electric pumps. Sometimes you'd only realise you'd got keg when you were given a pint lined with bubbles. But even in those days, we always avoided Watneys Red Barrel, which had a reputation for being weak, tasteless and expensive.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.com