tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post1142769819095678038..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Liberal health fascismCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69328370343287637322009-10-03T07:56:41.686+01:002009-10-03T07:56:41.686+01:00"Yes, Anonymous, I can see your point that &q..."Yes, Anonymous, I can see your point that "the Democrats left the majority". That's explains why a Democrat, Barack Obama, was elected as President and a Democrat majority was elected in Congress. Instead of reading "well researched" books, I suggest you read your newspapers.<br /><br />... And so the point is well proven then.<br /><br />Hitler and Mussolini, both National Socialists (as opposed to the International ones who were outnumbered and believed "brown first, red later") , were extremely popular among their own people and here in the US - where Socialist/Progressives of the liberal persuasion helped to popularize and normalize them.<br /><br />Thus your comment is well received.<br /><br />Obama was truly popular this time around.<br /><br />So was Hitler and Mussolini - all three.<br /><br />And it's still MY personal choice.<br /><br />The Democratic party, it left me - not the other way around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-27060318418341412742009-09-25T01:23:47.662+01:002009-09-25T01:23:47.662+01:00"It is true, of course, that in Germany befor..."It is true, of course, that in Germany before 1933, and in Italy before 1922, communists and Nazis or Fascists clashed more frequently with each other than with other parties. They competed for the support of the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. But their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common and whom they could not hope to convince, is the liberal of the old type.<br /><br />While to the Nazi the communist, and to the communist the Nazi, and to both the socialist, are potential recruits who are made of the right timber, although they have listened to false prophets, they both know that there can be no compromise between them and those who really believe in individual freedom."<br /><br />Hayek, 'The Road to Serfdom'Christopher Snowdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15963753745009712865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-10630369434333136712009-09-25T01:09:44.590+01:002009-09-25T01:09:44.590+01:00By Iain Dale ~ a desperate wannabe Tory candidate ...By Iain Dale ~ a desperate wannabe Tory candidate for Parliament, so therefore a truly unbiased commentator! I really think you need to do better than that.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-79963709133235978142009-09-25T00:32:00.238+01:002009-09-25T00:32:00.238+01:00Why the BNP is Left Wing (And Fascist)<a href="http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-bnp-is-left-wing-and-fascist.html" rel="nofollow">Why the BNP is Left Wing (And Fascist)</a>Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-35775435202777987682009-09-25T00:07:40.722+01:002009-09-25T00:07:40.722+01:00No, it doesn't touch any raw nerves at all. I...No, it doesn't touch any raw nerves at all. It's simply wrong.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-77093398520176980482009-09-24T22:16:03.801+01:002009-09-24T22:16:03.801+01:00You're welcome, Chris.
I agree it's a ver...You're welcome, Chris.<br /><br />I agree it's a very thoughtful and challenging book, but he does perhaps try to stretch the thesis too far.<br /><br />But the fundamental point that Fascism and modern-day US "liberalism" share a common ancestry in the early 20th century Progressive movement is a wholly valid one.<br /><br />And suggesting that Fascism (or indeed the BNP) is a basically left-wing ideology certainly touches a raw nerve amongst those who identify themselves as being on the Left ;-)Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-4201421450954655012009-09-24T21:52:02.413+01:002009-09-24T21:52:02.413+01:00Liberal Fascism is very good isn't it? He says...Liberal Fascism is very good isn't it? He says towards the end that he isn't trying to write a modern day 'Road to Serfdom' but that was what it most reminded of.<br /><br />He has to stretch things a tad to make everything fit the overarching theory. I'm not sure that supporting abortion is really the same thing as supporting eugenics, for instance, but it's very thought-provoking.<br /><br />Thanks for the ad for Velvet Glove, BTW!Christopher Snowdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15963753745009712865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-48506225637550901712009-09-24T11:22:33.178+01:002009-09-24T11:22:33.178+01:00Yes, Anonymous, I can see your point that "th...Yes, Anonymous, I can see your point that "the Democrats left the majority". That's explains why a Democrat, Barack Obama, was elected as President and a Democrat majority was elected in Congress. Instead of reading "well researched" books, I suggest you read your newspapers.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-34271515959032341972009-09-24T03:34:51.464+01:002009-09-24T03:34:51.464+01:00I am from America. I did read the book. I had al...I am from America. I did read the book. I had already been changing my mind before-hand, but this is the book that cinched it. After all the bans and Nanny impositions on our personal freedoms here, of which there are many, and thanks to this book, I will NEVER in my life vote for the Democratic Party here in the US - they are, as this book explains full well, liberal-fascists - no different than their regressive "progressives" of the last turn of century, when they lead us in admiration for Hitler and Mussolini both. I actually didn't leave the Democrats as much as the Democrats left the majority, certainly left me disenfranchised, and turned fascist in their demands. Very good book, everyone should read it though it's quite long - but excellent. It is extremely well researched and backed up by facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-24615630640874779932009-09-23T22:02:14.704+01:002009-09-23T22:02:14.704+01:00Having now read the article, I can see that he red...Having now read the article, I can see that he redefines the word 'fascism' in a way that suits his own hypothesis, but which is contrary to common usage. Fortunately, people who try to redefine words rarely succeed, as popular usage has its own way of deciding definitions, despite the best efforts of academics and linguists. Besides, it's not particularly helpful to suggest we're all fascists now, because the word becomes meaningless.<br /><br />I always assumed that Mussolini was called a fascist because he proudly proclaimed himself as one, which I thought was a useful clue.<br /><br />Interesting posting nonetheless.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-15077654045774650912009-09-23T15:01:14.894+01:002009-09-23T15:01:14.894+01:00This interview with Jonah Goldberg gives a good su...<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/11/goldberg/" rel="nofollow">This interview with Jonah Goldberg</a> gives a good summary of his thesis in <i>Liberal Fascism</i>.<br /><br /><i>"Mussolini was born a socialist, he died a socialist, he never abandoned his love of socialism, he was one of the most important socialist intellectuals in Europe and was one of the most important socialist activists in Italy, and the only reason he got dubbed a fascist and therefore a right-winger is because he supported World War I."</i>Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-28225598227849821982009-09-23T14:50:48.431+01:002009-09-23T14:50:48.431+01:00I am completely unable to understand the suggestio...I am completely unable to understand the suggestion that "Fascism is essentially an ideology of the political Left, not the Right", unless you're talking about Stalinism, but most people on the Left aren't Stalinists. To suggest otherwise is like saying that Tories are basically Fascists, which is nonsense. I note the examples quoted were Nazi & Fascist in origin.<br /><br />The role of the state in health matters is ensuring people can make informed choices: there's nothing wrong with that. It is when the state attempts to enforce the officially approved lifestyles that the term "health fascism" may become relevant. But I think it's a sloppy use of emotive language anyway.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-76100078039510558722009-09-23T12:27:48.703+01:002009-09-23T12:27:48.703+01:00I hope so curmudgy. I think it was the question &q...I hope so curmudgy. I think it was the question "would you like the trains to run on time?" what did it. Either that or "Pick your favourite moustache"<br /><br />We're not talking about rounding the fatties up into camps. Not yet, at least. Gotta see if the fattie tax works first.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-25939751131651984082009-09-23T11:26:00.114+01:002009-09-23T11:26:00.114+01:00Weren't you the closest to Adolf Hitler in Jef...Weren't you the closest to Adolf Hitler in Jeff Pickthall's political spectrum test, Cookie?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-36031734202261976002009-09-23T11:17:58.584+01:002009-09-23T11:17:58.584+01:00Isn't VAT simply a tax on all our choices?Isn't VAT simply a tax on all our choices?Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-46074185499799121612009-09-23T09:42:47.948+01:002009-09-23T09:42:47.948+01:00Dave has was is the key point. If you have the soc...Dave has was is the key point. If you have the socialisation of health costs, why not the socialisation of health choices?<br /><br />Many criticise banking for the socialisation of the costs of failure whilst maintaining the privatisation of profits. Similar?<br /><br />If you look at the projection for future costs of obesity, the NHS is unaffordable. Obesity is the main reason the US spend more on health but get less than Europe.<br /><br />Smokers are taxed on the extra cost of their lifestyle choices, why not the fatties?Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18249313579361953612009-09-22T23:25:26.503+01:002009-09-22T23:25:26.503+01:00Interestingly, I can see the reason why, if people...Interestingly, I can see the reason why, if people want free health care, that there is some form of Government action to reduce the likelihood of us needing health care, even if only for the reason that it will reduce the taxpayers burden.<br /><br />But that doesn't sit comfortably with the fact that I think people have a right to make their own choices...mmmmmAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.com