tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post1626923722495229611..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: At the sign of the OstrichCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-67074491551923686972010-01-27T15:18:56.139+00:002010-01-27T15:18:56.139+00:00How many are pre-loading because they feel more fr...<i>How many are pre-loading because they feel more free at someone's house where they can all stay together instead of being split up by a daft law?</i><br /><br />A good point about the motivation for pre-loading which hadn't occurred to me before.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-36158250860014169652010-01-23T22:46:09.465+00:002010-01-23T22:46:09.465+00:00"Many, if not most, of the younger drinkers r...<em>"Many, if not most, of the younger drinkers responsible for all of this "pre-load" at home on cheaply bought spirits and RTDs, and are well on the way to being drunk before they set out."</em><br /><br />Is this the best you can do? <br /><br />The pub industry has been targeting the 18-25 age group for as long as I can remember. They used to drink in pubs where they were controlled. Talk about pre-loading as much as you want, but supermarket prices have increased in real terms in the past 30 years according to ONS figures. Pub prices, however, have increased tenfold (I'll get the links if you really crave them).<br /><br />That says that supermarkets have been perfectly sensible but pubs haven't. The problem (if there is one which I don't subscribe to) is entirely because of pubs. To make supermarkets change their reasonable practices to cover failings by CAMRA's faves is stupid.<br /><br />Of course, if the 18-25 year olds, who are awash with cash (hence being milked for decades) wanted to, they would go straight to the pub and be less of a problem. How many are pre-loading because they feel more free at someone's house where they can all stay together instead of being split up by a daft law?<br /><br />CAMRA could have helped matters in that regard, but failed miserably. And simultaneously signalled the start of the war on beer. <br /><br />Good job, CAMRA.Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-1006082235927371532010-01-23T22:34:58.298+00:002010-01-23T22:34:58.298+00:00Very interesting article, and one which helps me t...Very interesting article, and one which helps me to understand why CAMRA are so very useless at tackling this most abhorrent of governments.<br /><br /><em>"For a while, the leadership of CAMRA may continue to believe that what they hold dear and campaign for can somehow stand clear of the anti-drink tide. But one day, of course, the waters will suddenly and unexpectedly rise up and wash them away, and by then it will be too late."</em><br /><br />It's already too late. The die is cast and the steamroller has turned in the direction of alcohol. CAMRA assisted in dismantling the 'flood defence' between them and the righteous (you know what I am talking about).<br /><br />It was like a General inspecting his fingernails whilst an ally was being overwhelmed, then wondering why the enemy doubled their ranks and directed all efforts at his position.<br /><br />... and then responding by raising a white flag and telling the oncoming troops to slaughter just one half of his army.<br /><br />That's a hell of a lot of trust, right there.<br /><br />How many CAMRA approved ales are deemed as 'strong' by the anti-alcohol lobby? <br /><br />If middle class favourite, wine, is being attacked for increasing potency, what chance a few very average guys who like a tasty (yet high ABV) beer?<br /><br />Still, I'll continue to back them as much as they refused to back anyone else. Can't say fairer than that, eh? <br /><br />What has happened to Mike Benner, by the way, been a bit quiet of late, hasn't he?Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55083502410231188652010-01-23T13:17:43.736+00:002010-01-23T13:17:43.736+00:00Ooh, I've rattled your cage there, John, haven...Ooh, I've rattled your cage there, John, haven't I? :-)<br /><br />While undoubtedly a certain amount of pre-loading does go on, I'm sure the vast majority of off-trade alcohol isn't consumed in pre-loading, so it's wrong to punish the majority for the sins of the minority. And even if we had a minimum price of 50 or 60p a unit, there would still be a financial benefit to pre-loading.<br /><br />And if the pre-loaders all stayed at home, there wouldn't be any town-centre disorder.<br /><br />Of course most pubs are well-run, but you can't avoid the fact that the vast majority of alcohol-related disorder is associated with people who have previously been on licensed premises.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-61792946448154491642010-01-23T12:25:58.872+00:002010-01-23T12:25:58.872+00:00CAMRA
They have done for pubs what
Thatcher did fo...CAMRA<br />They have done for pubs what<br />Thatcher did for pits.<br />They congregate in sad circles<br />spouting the fluffy aspirations<br />of lower middle class dreamers,<br />their banners proclaiming the<br />realm of control and rule.<br />Luke warm Liberal Marxists in salaried employment light years<br />from reality,completely surplus to requirement. Buckles ,braces and<br />elbow patches.<br /><br /><br />The Grim ReaperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-19957810979327260462010-01-23T12:19:00.335+00:002010-01-23T12:19:00.335+00:00"When the vast majority of alcohol-related di..."When the vast majority of alcohol-related disorder is related to consumption on licensed premises..."<br /><br />Is in fact nonsense and displays a lack of knowledge about the drinking patterns that lay behind the scenes of disorder in town and city centres. Many, if not most, of the younger drinkers responsible for all of this "pre-load" at home on cheaply bought spirits and RTDs, and are well on the way to being drunk before they set out. <br /><br />Most pubs are indeed examples of responsible and controlled drinking environments and to pretend otherwise is only giving more ammunition to the anti-pub neo-pro brigade.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-89842330674037080222010-01-23T09:54:30.914+00:002010-01-23T09:54:30.914+00:00I was once told I didn't understand how CAMRA ...I was once told I didn't understand how CAMRA worked when I was perplexed why CAMRA didn't use t'internet to improve communication and discussion, esp. as the NE accept it's poor. So I went away and learnt how CAMRA worked and to be honest, I'm not much happier now.<br /><br />That said, there are rumblings around to try an improve discussion across the organisation. The CAMRA forums IMO wil be a great leveller once they gain wider acceptance.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-34141296268676070512010-01-23T01:58:32.855+00:002010-01-23T01:58:32.855+00:00"When the vast majority of alcohol-related di...<i>"When the vast majority of alcohol-related disorder is related to consumption on licensed premises, to portray the pub as an environment of responsible, controlled drinking seems very much like special pleading."</i><br /><br />How rare it is to hear simple truths like this told. This is a truly excellent post. The pub trade needs an effective body to speak out for it, now more than ever. Such a shame that CAMRA is so wedded to its petty prejudices and Trotskyite origins that it can't be that body. It's inability to see the bigger picture is, frankly, pathetic. They are turkeys voting for Christmas.Christopher Snowdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15963753745009712865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-44762731520702659332010-01-22T21:49:52.699+00:002010-01-22T21:49:52.699+00:00I voted for the "it should speak out" op...I voted for the "it should speak out" option in my poll, but actually I think there's a lot to be said for the option of "it should adopt a narrower, non-political stance".<br /><br />Given the fact that by definition CAMRA only speaks for a limited sub-section of drinkers and pub users, it can't really lay claim to represent all responsible consumers of alcohol. Also, in the current climate, defending drinkers' rights is easy to portray as taking a stance of "let's get everyone pissed" and may even detract from some of the other work CAMRA does.<br /><br />As someone with a strong interest in historic buildings, I think some of the best work CAMRA has done is in raising the awareness of pub interiors and creating the National Inventory, which is something entirely outside the political arena.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-50038659352456817712010-01-22T21:29:14.863+00:002010-01-22T21:29:14.863+00:00Excellent post Curmudgeon, and I also enjoyed read...Excellent post Curmudgeon, and I also enjoyed reading your "Only Here for the Beer" article as well.<br />I too received the same e-mail from CAMRA, and like yourself declined to donate to something that stands little chance of success anyway. Besides, CAMRA receive enough money off of me in terms of membership subscriptions, GBG sales etc.<br />I have been a member of the campaign since the mid-70's, and for most of that time have been a reasonably active member of my local branch. I enjoy the social side of things, and even get roped in to do the odd pub survey, but most of CAMRA's campaigns leave me cold. (I shudder to recall the money wasted on things like NaturALE and Ninkasi Goddess of Ale, to name but two disasters). <br />I plan to attend the AGM this year, (for the first time since 1984), but mainly for the fact that I want to visit the IOM, rather than listen to a lot of hot air being expounded in the debating hall! I agree that CAMRA is far from democratic, in fact it has become a lot worse since it started vetting motions put forward for debate at the AGM. I also strongly agree that the campaign should be lining up to fight the anti-alcohol lobby, rather than sitting smuggly on the sidelines in the mistaken view that "real ale" is somehow safe from the threat posed by the neo-Prohibitionist movement.<br />However, CAMRA does not seem very good at listening to what its grass roots members have to say; a situation that seems to be getting worse. Quite how we go about changing things though is open to question.<br />Answers on a postcard please.Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-62629457376498303212010-01-22T21:11:35.553+00:002010-01-22T21:11:35.553+00:00Fascinating and informing. I cannot take the mick ...Fascinating and informing. I cannot take the mick with a lager lout related comment. Run for the leadership!Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.com