tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post2609213052229087105..comments2024-03-28T17:11:52.333+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: An unpalatable truthCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-15246654058934670402013-11-06T12:13:02.645+00:002013-11-06T12:13:02.645+00:00"Massive estate pubs won't have a problem..."Massive estate pubs won't have a problem, but the little country pub might just decide its not worth the hassle."<br /><br />Fair comment depending on any amendment but I couldn't imagine, in today's paranoid world, it would be much less than an NBC suit area.<br /><br />The important thing is the Pub/Landlord having the choice. It's up to them and their customers, not the state. Don't like a pub or restaurant that allows smoking? Don't go! but, of course, this is the original 'level playing field' argument. That, essentially the pubcos, feared losing custom to the wet led pubs. And still do.Frank Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-52921085226158282432013-11-06T10:42:47.324+00:002013-11-06T10:42:47.324+00:00In the event of an amendment allowing a smoking ro...In the event of an amendment allowing a smoking room, pubs will presumably have a choice to make. Get of the pool room and make it a smoking room? 10 extra smoking customers or 20 extra pool player customers?<br /><br />Massive estate pubs won't have a problem, but the little country pub might just decide its not worth the hassle.pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38797928759733083242013-11-06T09:36:21.007+00:002013-11-06T09:36:21.007+00:00Did they never clean it, then? Y'know tedious ...Did they never clean it, then? Y'know tedious things like wiping tables, emptying ashtrays? Maybe now in these pristine new clinics all they have to do is take away empty glasses and plates with leftovers on. They still have to wipe tables , of course, and clean the floors regularly I would imagine. Or maybe they don't any more. I wouldn't really know as I've stopped being a regular customer.<br /><br />This is silly. We all know that in the event of an amendment every pub would attempt to accommodate both if they can. It's called profit. I'd rest easy, though, as the ban isn't about the protection of bar staff, that's complete BS. It's a stick to beat smokers and smoking with and because of this, will not be easy to amend. Frank Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-84417155225029411272013-11-06T08:14:26.350+00:002013-11-06T08:14:26.350+00:00Because to a smoker, the world is an ashtray.Because to a smoker, the world is an ashtray.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-74858504046112541582013-11-05T16:37:55.934+00:002013-11-05T16:37:55.934+00:00'There's no point in smartening a place up...'There's no point in smartening a place up for smokers'. Just to make sure I've got this straight: would that be because (a) they are all filthy scum, or (b) their money is worth less than nonsmokers' money?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-37953486239334469132013-11-05T10:10:30.079+00:002013-11-05T10:10:30.079+00:00So pre ban, most pubs were 'shitholes'. Gl...So pre ban, most pubs were 'shitholes'. Glad I know that for 45 years I frequented 'shitholes.'. Frank Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-41458392860761003142013-11-05T08:08:33.310+00:002013-11-05T08:08:33.310+00:00I wasn't for a moment suggesting the regional ...I wasn't for a moment suggesting the regional hanseatic authorities had enshrined the criteria of shithole into law in order to differentiate between establishments for the purpose of permitting or restricting smoking.<br /><br />Only that an observable difference between the 2 types of establishment was the criteria of shithole.<br /><br />But think about it. You've spent a few bob on the place, you don't want smoking. In a dump no one would go to, you have to drag someone in.<br /><br />I suspect the same would occur here. A change to smoking regulations would not usher in a new era of smoking tolerance. All the nice places would want to keep their nice trade of high margin grub and a few struggling dumps would let the gaspers back in. But there's no point in smartening a place up for smokers.<br /><br /><br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18611368446620640192013-11-05T00:37:24.061+00:002013-11-05T00:37:24.061+00:00I happen to know Hamburg quite well and there is a...I happen to know Hamburg quite well and there is a kind of partial smoking ban there - I'm not sure exactly how it works but it's based on factors like food served or not, size of venue etc - not on whether a place is a 'shithole' or not. I've been in several smoking bars in Hamburg which were certainly not shitholes. Of course that could be a matter of taste . . . but isn't it nice when as many peoples' tastes can be accomodated as possible?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-74660290025647341862013-11-04T22:53:55.177+00:002013-11-04T22:53:55.177+00:00So when I said that the number who favoured comple...So when I said that the number who favoured completely overturning the ban was in single figures, I was bang on, wasn't I?<br /><br />I don't know what you lot are moaning about. I said only single figure percentages favoured completely repealing the law, so it was never going to happen, and what a surprise, I was completely right.pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-71829947736068441382013-11-04T22:27:17.677+00:002013-11-04T22:27:17.677+00:00"It is a simple either - or"
pyo: Not a...<i>"It is a simple either - or"</i><br /><br />pyo: Not according to the government when they used to ask the question. <br /><br />Since 1996, the ONS asked about smoking bans and split the responses between those who approve of an outright ban, those who favoured some restrictions, and the numbers calling for none at all.<br /><br />The figures <a href="http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_health/Smoking2005.pdf" rel="nofollow">up to 2005</a> were:<br /><br />2003: 20%, 70% and 8% respectively.<br />2004: 31%, 63% and 5%<br />2005: 33%, 61% and 5%<br /><br />Note that the first figure is those in favour of what has now been inflicted on us. The significant majority didn't want it.<br /><br />Nothing has really changed except that the ONS stopped asking the question so as not to embarrass the government post 2007.<br /><br />You can put that evidence-free spade away now. ;)Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-87555584200360227772013-11-04T21:25:48.994+00:002013-11-04T21:25:48.994+00:00"All the smart nice bars don't allow smok...<i>"All the smart nice bars don't allow smoking. Lots of utter shit holes do."</i> <br /><br />Seems like fair dos - both the prissy ponces and the rough-arsed folk are happy.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-80160425429103708442013-11-04T20:16:04.086+00:002013-11-04T20:16:04.086+00:00Cor blimey Cookie, You make Hamburg sound like My ...Cor blimey Cookie, You make Hamburg sound like My Kinda TownJ Mark Doddshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800542445712331202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-52722718436884660852013-11-04T19:17:13.919+00:002013-11-04T19:17:13.919+00:00Don't get me wrong, lads. I'm put myself i...Don't get me wrong, lads. I'm put myself in the camp of being in favour of smoking ban reform, if only for reasons of liberty. That don't mean I think it's not a dirty dangerous habit, like.<br /><br />But if you want to see what types of pubs would welcome smokers, have a piss up in Hamburg. Not for the beer, it's shite.<br /><br />All the smart nice bars don't allow smoking. Lots of utter shit holes do. If you like shit holes, that may not be an issue but a Hamburg shit hole makes an English shit hole look posh. In a Hamburg shit hole you'll be necking pissy Astra lager for 4 euros a pop in the company of retired alcoholic brasses too old for the reeperbahn. Much like Rochdale, then.<br /><br /><br /><br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-48193903988433659182013-11-04T19:11:50.895+00:002013-11-04T19:11:50.895+00:00It is a simple either - or. People either want the...It is a simple either - or. People either want the ban completely overturned or they don't. 46% completely support than ban in its entirety, whereas 41% would be willing to see some minor concessions made such as an enclosed smoking shelter, but definitely not a complete reversal. No-one wants to have to stand in a cloud of smog every time they go to the bar, and the numbers back that up time and time again. pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-56116077073691643152013-11-04T19:04:28.459+00:002013-11-04T19:04:28.459+00:00You'll be lucky to find a pint for £3 in South...You'll be lucky to find a pint for £3 in South London nowadays, I think. Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18690063632989004642013-11-04T19:03:49.741+00:002013-11-04T19:03:49.741+00:00Sigh...
But a majority DID NOT support the blanke...Sigh...<br /><br />But a majority DID NOT support the blanket ban that was imposed. It's not a simple either-or-choice.<br /><br />How many times do I have to repeat this?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-57552086321967209462013-11-04T18:59:08.004+00:002013-11-04T18:59:08.004+00:00Back in 1986, I was paying £1.32 a pint in Portsmo...Back in 1986, I was paying £1.32 a pint in Portsmouth, in 2012 I was paying £3.00 a pint in South London. If we take inflation into account, that £1.32 pint would have cost £3.28 in 2012. However in 1984, I was only paying 72p, I think in those two years that was probably more noticeable than in the last 28! Where people I think people think beer prices are expensive is that they have risen more sharply more recently (like fuel etc.), but overall, its not that bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-11551824815399403142013-11-04T18:58:23.753+00:002013-11-04T18:58:23.753+00:00Even back in 2010, a pitiful 13% wanted the ban ov...Even back in 2010, a pitiful 13% wanted the ban overturned.<br /><br />Why do I need to post links? There are about 100 links from your own website that show the exact same thing.<br /><br />To suggest any government in their right mind is going to overturn the ban based on the support on only 1 in 8 people (probably optimistic now) is completely bonkers. It ain't happening, move on.pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-13503597733571968312013-11-04T18:25:49.596+00:002013-11-04T18:25:49.596+00:00py0 hasn't come up with any reference (and he ...py0 hasn't come up with any reference (and he didn't when I asked him this in the past), but what he may be referring to is support for a complete repeal of the smoking ban. However, there are plenty of options for relaxation short of that and, as you point out, the official social attitudes survey has never produced a majority in favour of a blanket ban everywhere.<br /><br />It would be interesting now to see what level of support the proposition that "pubs and clubs should be allowed to have a separate ventilated smoking room if they choose" would gain.<br /><br /><i>"No matter how much anyone points that out, the anti-alcohol crowd will still tell you it is more "affordable". ;)"</i><br /><br />Nah, that's only the slabs of Carling sold by the evil Tesco. Of course, if you believe the useful idiots of Prohibition, double the price of off-trade alcohol and folks will be flooding back in to pubs.<br />Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26912783260691452352013-11-04T18:20:18.225+00:002013-11-04T18:20:18.225+00:00I'll leave this here, Mudgie. ;)
I have to sa...I'll leave <a href="http://takingliberties.squarespace.com/taking-liberties/2010/1/26/england-minority-support-for-comprehensive-smoking-ban.html" rel="nofollow">this here</a>, Mudgie. ;)<br /><br />I have to say that Cookie describes it very well. When the pub industry caved in to the anti-smoking mafia, they said goodbye a large proportion of their former regulars for good. Many whose default night out would once have been the pub then found other things to do and realised that pub life wasn't really that special after all - the illusion was broken for probably a majority of them. I still think an amendment would entice enough back to slow the decline in pub stock or maybe even stabilise it, though. A ventilated smoking room could tempt quite a lot of people to shift venue for the many weekend house gatherings that are as prevalent now as in the 1960s according to the Puddlecotes Snr. <br /><br />Oh yea, and Mudgie:<br /><br /><i>"a pint in a pub is usually dearer than it was thirty years ago.</i><br /><br />No matter how much anyone points that out, the anti-alcohol crowd will still tell you it is more "affordable". ;)<br /><br />Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88410216070011994722013-11-04T18:10:56.878+00:002013-11-04T18:10:56.878+00:00I did not mean to suggest that time can be reverse...I did not mean to suggest that time can be reversed. It's true that Prohibition changed American drinking habits. Things do keep changing, and by the same token, even if, say, only 5% of the population want the smoking ban scrapped or amended (which I doubt), there will at some point be a backlash. We are currently at a high (or low?) point in the stigmatisation of smoking, and I've no doubt that when the lies and excesses of the antismoking lobby are more widely recognised, public opinion will shift - though God knows how long it will take.<br /><br />No doubt there will be disagreement with that, but here's another way to look at it: even if only 5% of the population want smoking pubs, why should not 5% of pubs allow smoking? 5% is more than the percentage of, for instance, gay people - but we don't ban gay bars. Though we used to . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-86265859449543514462013-11-04T16:21:40.392+00:002013-11-04T16:21:40.392+00:00"Yes but the public support for overturning t...<i>"Yes but the public support for overturning the smoking ban is down into single figures"</i><br /><br />Reference? (and hopefully not to something from ASH)Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-32436077956926590862013-11-04T16:19:26.751+00:002013-11-04T16:19:26.751+00:00It would be interesting to know how many of those ...It would be interesting to know how many of those now campaigning against pubcos were vocal opponents of the smoking ban in 2007. Because, if you weren't, and you're now weeping crocodile tears over the fate of pubs, you come across as contemptible hypocrites.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-20470612304422133532013-11-04T16:19:21.223+00:002013-11-04T16:19:21.223+00:00Yes but the public support for overturning the smo...Yes but the public support for overturning the smoking ban is down into single figures. It simply ain't gonna happen, best to move on and look at other ways of coaxing people out of their living rooms to come and socialise together.pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26765491770663767952013-11-04T16:15:51.518+00:002013-11-04T16:15:51.518+00:00Eye but removing prohibition did not see a return ...Eye but removing prohibition did not see a return to pre prohibition drinking patterns.<br /><br />Much of American drinking is still done in the home and much of it is spirit based. Bars were far more prevalent pre prohibition.<br /><br />American tastes remain influenced by the prohibition era. A blended scotch in America tends to have a higher proportion of grain whisky than Europe.<br /><br />Only recently has there been a return to drinking ales, which were available in bars pre prohibition, alongside lagers.<br /><br />Prohibition was repealed but the market was changed by it.<br /><br />Should the smoking ban be lifted, it would not return pubs to 2007.<br /><br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.com