tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post3666786506267462865..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Day of reckoningCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-11774376864054415752022-06-20T15:59:07.798+01:002022-06-20T15:59:07.798+01:00We are actually doing some work on brewery figures...We are actually doing some work on brewery figures to get a more accurate picture moving forwards, but for now, the article you mention quotes HMRC/BBPA figures which show 2020 as 2500. So yes I would suggest your figure needs changing if that is your source.Neil Walkerhttps://www.siba.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-43417012340878681182022-06-20T15:34:04.912+01:002022-06-20T15:34:04.912+01:00See this article by your Chief Executive in which ...See <a href="https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2022/06/01/impact-of-small-brewers-relief-on-independent-breweries" rel="nofollow">this article</a> by your Chief Executive in which he says:<br /><br /><i>"we can celebrate more breweries since the 1930s, the highest number of breweries per head of any country in the World"</i><br /><br />Yes, he doesn't specifically mention a figure of 3,000, but the basic point stands. The specific number isn't really relevant. Happy to change the figure in the post to 2,500 if you feel that would be a more accurate representation.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-52044046812673279882022-06-20T14:20:34.166+01:002022-06-20T14:20:34.166+01:00SIBA have never said there are 3,000 breweries. I ...SIBA have never said there are 3,000 breweries. I think you may be getting confused with the report fromaccountants UHY Hacker Young which quoted that number. It's nothing to do with SIBA and not a number we agree with or champion.Neil Walkerhttps://www.siba.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-41386362960373276232022-06-19T11:01:44.440+01:002022-06-19T11:01:44.440+01:00It was quite well-known in the North-West as well....It was quite well-known in the North-West as well. It was one of the few microbreweries that developed a recognisable brand. And surely it makes sense for small breweries to concentrate on a local market where they can build up personal contacts rather than slugging it out on a national scale with 3,000 others.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-43130070178990129512022-06-18T16:05:49.668+01:002022-06-18T16:05:49.668+01:00If I had never visited Sheffield, I would never ha...If I had never visited Sheffield, I would never have heard of Kelham Island Brewery, they may well have known their local / regional market, but beyond that they did not have any reach. Putting all their eggs in the local market proved their downfall. Tinmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007408792206302146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-65777548365467975712022-06-16T18:57:43.718+01:002022-06-16T18:57:43.718+01:00but that was one of the aspects with Kelham Brewer...but that was one of the aspects with Kelham Brewery I didnt understand, as surely their outlet was via the Fat Cat, and not just the Sheffield one, Pale Rider was near permanent feature at the Fat Cat Norwich, and often featured in the other local Cats as well as Riders on the Storm and other beers they made, so they had a guaranteed route to market which alot of these micro breweries dont have hence the race to the bottom of the market in costs of a cask to pubs, to get that foot in the door. Stononoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26514756407660837172022-06-16T18:02:13.015+01:002022-06-16T18:02:13.015+01:00The brewers which specialise in cask conditioned b...The brewers which specialise in cask conditioned beers seem to have the most difficulties particularly when they lack their own outlets such as a tap room. Those brewers which are able to offer packaged beers and/or keg beer as well as cask beer can exploit a much greater market and appear to be surviving better. Existing breweries are expanding in Bristol and South Wales and new ones continue to open,if a brewery is flexible and prepared to consider new markets the position is not as bad as it may appear.john lambnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-83900587574958496432022-06-16T17:05:04.484+01:002022-06-16T17:05:04.484+01:00CAMRA pond water in its place. Geeky Micropubs. Ke...CAMRA pond water in its place. Geeky Micropubs. Keeps it out of the pubs of the gentleman or professional drinker. If Pubaggedon achieves this, creative destruction will have succeeded.Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-77346162049122891272022-06-16T16:05:32.089+01:002022-06-16T16:05:32.089+01:00Basically what Mudgie said. I've been yakking ...Basically what Mudgie said. I've been yakking on about oversupply for years. Combine it with all the economic factors and the reduction in demand from free houses, the edge which was always beckoning for some, has inevitably been reached. And there will be more to come.<br /><br />Perfect storm of rising costs and falling demand due to economic downturn and squeeze on disposable income, plus a viable alternative, be that supermarkets or JDW. You don't have to be a fiscal genius to see it doesn't add up to success for small brewers.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69452600965366179092022-06-16T13:49:25.206+01:002022-06-16T13:49:25.206+01:00Wasn't me this time, Guv!Wasn't me this time, Guv!https://www.blogger.com/profile/10603987317820861401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-74985858777316387602022-06-16T11:30:43.090+01:002022-06-16T11:30:43.090+01:00A quick reminder that introducing an antagonistic ...A quick reminder that introducing an antagonistic personal note is in violation of the comments policy. And anyone wishing to engage in extended discussion needs to identify themselves as a recognisable person rather than hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-34637615454122432362022-06-16T11:29:40.923+01:002022-06-16T11:29:40.923+01:00Er, that’s the definition of “trigger”, the straw ...Er, that’s the definition of “trigger”, the straw that broke the camel’s back, not the underlying cause.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-87403056990103373242022-06-16T11:29:02.801+01:002022-06-16T11:29:02.801+01:00Thanks for the economics lesson. Yes, fiscal stimu...Thanks for the economics lesson. Yes, fiscal stimulus leads to inflation -- fair. But to attribute the immediate trigger of closures to inflation is a stretch. Inflation made things harder but it was the same underlying dynamics hurting the pub trade for years that ultimately did them in, accelerated by the dynamics of Covid (much more about less trade than inflation). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55022921057062984982022-06-15T09:04:03.809+01:002022-06-15T09:04:03.809+01:00Of course some microbreweries produce high-quality...Of course some microbreweries produce high-quality, distinctive beers, but many of those engaged in a race to the bottom on pricing produce very ordinary generic brews, and that's being charitable. And you've often referred to beer tasting like homebrew on your blog, Martin ;-)Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-10982906103600420892022-06-15T09:00:01.882+01:002022-06-15T09:00:01.882+01:00Looks like someone needs a lesson in basic economi...Looks like someone needs a lesson in basic economics. During the period of Covid lockdowns and restrictions, governments borrowed or created vast amounts of money to fund furlough and business support and to keep public services going. Once economies had returned to something like normal and demand had recovered, this was inevitably going to feed through into higher inflation. Most of this was already baked in well before Ukraine – that was just the icing on the cake.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-41035315178243101522022-06-15T08:45:04.831+01:002022-06-15T08:45:04.831+01:00I agree with Will that it's unfair to label th...I agree with Will that it's unfair to label the microbrews as "amateur homebrew"; they can be very good (or not, the difference is still largely beer turnover or basic cellarmanship).<br /><br />But regular readers of CAMRA Discourse will know that the contributors to that are champions of variety, independence and small brewers, with a tendency to slag off the established brewers like Marstons at every opportunity.<br /><br />The loss of Kelham Island's beers is very sad. One Discourse comment that "their beers aren't what they were" received no support and since moving to Sheffield I've had fantastic pints of their Best and Pale Rider in the Fat Cat, though I can't remember their beers anywhere else.retiredmartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429804437739227082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-85163545076976751832022-06-15T07:44:55.010+01:002022-06-15T07:44:55.010+01:00What was so difficult to understand?What was so difficult to understand?https://www.blogger.com/profile/10603987317820861401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-29259009287102701522022-06-15T04:48:16.591+01:002022-06-15T04:48:16.591+01:00"The immediate trigger for this has been the ..."The immediate trigger for this has been the wave of cost increases resulting from money printing to fund world-wide Covid bailouts" come again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-84197455344325991802022-06-14T20:20:31.618+01:002022-06-14T20:20:31.618+01:00You can add Wigan's Martland Mill and Prospect...You can add Wigan's Martland Mill and Prospect (though oddly owed via a Chinese interest *shrug*) to the list, I'm sure there are others.Boozy Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-29873828728789882792022-06-14T17:44:09.178+01:002022-06-14T17:44:09.178+01:00"...free of all the amateur CAMRA homebrew.&q..."...free of all the amateur CAMRA homebrew." I'm not sure that it's correct to associate CAMRA with homebrew, but more importantly there is little if any correlation between beer quality and brewery failure. I shall miss the likes of Kelham Island and Great Heck. I don't think we should be congratulating market forces or welcoming (pretty moderate) environmental gains from the demise of top breweries like these.Sheffield Hatterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01150338231906559719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-83926490896921123092022-06-14T15:32:25.549+01:002022-06-14T15:32:25.549+01:00These practices were rife, back in the early 2000&...These practices were rife, back in the early 2000's, when I was involved with the licensed trade, so I am surprised that it's taken this long for the fallout to begin.Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-59776242350429162392022-06-14T14:46:04.728+01:002022-06-14T14:46:04.728+01:00We have CAMRA to thank for turning a formerly succ...We have CAMRA to thank for turning a formerly successful sector of the UK economy into a cottage industry of indifferent amateurs churning out commodity pale ales. When cost pressures hit, only the most efficient survive in a commodity market. There will be a greater ability to raise prices on branded keg products. Energy efficient macro brewers are better for the environment so after the shake out, we’ll have a more resilient and sustainable sector, hopefully free of all the amateur CAMRA homebrew.Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-73636444933822677732022-06-14T11:07:58.427+01:002022-06-14T11:07:58.427+01:00In my cellarman experience (which was pre covid), ...In my cellarman experience (which was pre covid), there was definitely a race to the bottom in terms of price and quality. Too many home brewers pushing out mediocre beer at less than £60 a firkin. Also the practice of endlessly tweaking recipes slightly to create another stupidly named guest ale. Even then I thought that there was no way that this could be sustained. Don't start me off on extortionately priced murk though!Wesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-46349208717904300112022-06-14T11:03:02.048+01:002022-06-14T11:03:02.048+01:00I'm a homebrewer and, back in 2009, I posted o...I'm a homebrewer and, back in 2009, I posted on my website the cost of the ingredients for me to make 40 pints. All of the different malts, hops, yeast etc. The only thing I didn't include was the cost of sterilising solution, electricity and my time. It came to £11.39, or 28.5p a pint.<br />I did the same exercise today. It came to £12.93, or 32p a pint - a 13% increase in 13 years. Some things had actually gone down in price (pale malt and some of the hop varieties). The only things which had significantly increased in price were Munich malt and Safale SO4 yeast.<br />In 2009 I mentioned that the price of a similar pint in my local pub was £2.85, so I was saving £2.56 by making my beer at home.<br />A pint in my local is now £4.20 a pint, so I'm saving £3.88 a pint by making my own beer at home. The price of a pint in a pub has gone up 47%, the cost for me to make it has gone up just 13% - meanwhile my savings are actually losing money. And you wonder why people aren't going to the pub?Man Beachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06545635259769024118noreply@blogger.com