tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post4440995055538312735..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Obscured by cloudsCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-21256084869230952022016-05-07T16:15:32.964+01:002016-05-07T16:15:32.964+01:00Lots and lots of young smokers taking up the mantl...Lots and lots of young smokers taking up the mantle where i live and in the real world.Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-22260993558890558882016-05-06T23:04:29.001+01:002016-05-06T23:04:29.001+01:00ok mate, just like it hasn't halved in the pas...ok mate, just like it hasn't halved in the past 30 years.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-90930086999082110412016-05-06T16:24:34.250+01:002016-05-06T16:24:34.250+01:00PY lives in his own little bubble. Smoking tobacco...PY lives in his own little bubble. Smoking tobacco will never die because it is very enjoyable and perfect with a pint.Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-9568625851886940462016-05-06T15:49:08.691+01:002016-05-06T15:49:08.691+01:00No, I don't think there are many at all in Cam...No, I don't think there are many at all in Cambridge, although The Ship has had its issues and there is a fight in Spoons more weeks than not. <br /><br />However, I did previously live in, and still frequently visit, Nottingham and Mansfield though, which has more than its fair share of rough pubs. I used to know the barman at the Gregory, and was a frequent visitor to plenty of others round Radford and Hyson Green.<br /><br />Talking of pubs in Radford, the Plough is a nice pub, a bit run-down but not really rough. <br /><br />Stockport's quite posh. How many pubs in Cheetham Hill do you frequent? I stayed in a hostel there once.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-1286402229219711792016-05-06T14:17:02.869+01:002016-05-06T14:17:02.869+01:00@PY - it would be good if you could give us some e...@PY - it would be good if you could give us some examples of these run-down inner city pubs, and village pubs, that you're visiting. I doubt whether there are any run-down inner city pubs in Cambridge. Martin, Simon Everitt and I could compare notes with you.<br /><br />I've been pretty open about specific pubs I've been in - why not you? As you knoe, I'm a mild-mannered, middle-aged, middle-class chap. But there isn't a single pub in Stockport I'd be frightened to go in.<br /><br />And it's interesting that the Magnet, undoubtedly the most "crafty" pub in Stockport (as opposed to bar) has a very comfortable, well-appointed and well-used covered smoking area. I should have added it to the list of four I gave earlier. There's plenty of room for smokers at the Crown down the road as well.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-61543749657263591052016-05-06T11:38:44.911+01:002016-05-06T11:38:44.911+01:00All you want is choice and freedom.
But woe betid...All you want is choice and freedom.<br /><br />But woe betide anywhere that chooses not to offer what you think they should.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-67175596174998615832016-05-05T23:56:45.201+01:002016-05-05T23:56:45.201+01:00Ah yes, pubs like the Armoury, Boar's Head and...Ah yes, pubs like the Armoury, Boar's Head and Griffin are well-known as middle-class craft beer emporiums :PCurmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55613306774888918942016-05-05T22:05:13.080+01:002016-05-05T22:05:13.080+01:00Well by the sounds of it, the type of pubs you go ...Well by the sounds of it, the type of pubs you go in tend to be middle class beer emporiums in the craft beer bubble of greater Manchester, whereas I tend to go to a wider variety of run-down inner city pubs (where middle class fakers like Red Nev wouldn't last 5 minutes) and village pubs, in the midlands and east Anglia.<br /><br /><br />PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-62454310275233529552016-05-05T19:29:30.256+01:002016-05-05T19:29:30.256+01:00I refer to the "beer bubble" because you...I refer to the "beer bubble" because your experience of pubs often seems to be dramatically at variance from mine - and indeed that of Martin Taylor, who goes in a lot more pubs than I do.<br /><br />Over the course of each couple of years, the local CAMRA branch organises a series of pub crawls which aim to cover the vast majority of pubs in the area. So I'd say I get a pretty good impression of what's going on - it's not as if I just confine my drinking to a limited range of trad pubs.<br /><br />Given that smokers are considerably more likely to be pubgoers than non-smokers, it's entirely likely that many pubs have a 33-40% smoking clientele. It's not a tiny minority. Very often there seem to be more people standing outside the Jolly Crofter (an archetypal working-class keg-only boozer) in Edgeley, and smoking, than there are inside.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-62354391965312761062016-05-05T19:21:52.093+01:002016-05-05T19:21:52.093+01:00I'm not sure that vaping has so far brought ab...I'm not sure that vaping has so far brought about a massive reduction in smoking prevalence in the UK, and of course if it ends up being restricted like tobacco its potential for growth will be limited.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-27525790091748450952016-05-05T16:58:10.692+01:002016-05-05T16:58:10.692+01:00This is getting silly. Neither of us live in the &...This is getting silly. Neither of us live in the "beer bubble", so why keep using that as an argument?<br /><br />The most likely places to see a big smoking provision are big working class family food dispensaries like hungry horse pubs.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-21810889073105380122016-05-05T16:53:59.497+01:002016-05-05T16:53:59.497+01:00"if only these non smoking tosspots were over..."if only these non smoking tosspots were overcome"<br /><br />With a public service ethos like that, how could you possibly fail?<br /><br /><br />Smoking is dead, everybody knows it. Vaping was the final nail in the coffin. When the current generation of addicts die out, cigarettes will be consigned to the dustbin of history.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-66086945512286168012016-05-05T16:40:23.102+01:002016-05-05T16:40:23.102+01:00I know loads of pubs that would convert a bar to s...I know loads of pubs that would convert a bar to smoking allowed and transfer themselves into very viable businesses if only these non smoking tosspots were overcome.Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-74884799005600348992016-05-05T13:06:43.319+01:002016-05-05T13:06:43.319+01:00Well, as we know, things in the beer bubble are ve...Well, as we know, things in the beer bubble are very different from the real world.<br /><br />I can't think of any pub I regularly visit that *could* provide some kind of covered outdoor smoking facility but doesn't, although some obviously make more effort than others. Some of the best in the local area are:<br /><br />Arden Arms, Stockport<br />Armoury, Edgeley<br />Railway, Marple,<br />Royal Oak, Edgeley<br /><br />Clearly there are plenty of landlocked pubs in urban streets that aren't in any position to provide an outdoor area apart from the street. Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-52266835757041614142016-05-04T21:26:09.687+01:002016-05-04T21:26:09.687+01:00I go to plenty of pubs that don't even bother ...I go to plenty of pubs that don't even bother with outdoor smoking areas, because it's simply not worth the hassle as the vast majority of their customers don't smoke. As less and less people smoke, the will be less and less need to make special efforts to accommodate themPYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-85188699233202781062016-05-04T21:21:39.677+01:002016-05-04T21:21:39.677+01:00I've lived most places in England, but never L...I've lived most places in England, but never London or the south east.<br />I would wish you luck in your venture, I fear like most naive amateur landlords who think they can survive on the custom of a small group of hardened smokers, you'd soon find your savings gone forever.<br />Speaking on behalf of the majority of happy regular pubgoers, why don't you butt out of our pubs?PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-45681903928684593492016-05-04T17:22:08.118+01:002016-05-04T17:22:08.118+01:00Agreed. 100%Agreed. 100%Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-50643509399923844152016-05-04T17:08:37.671+01:002016-05-04T17:08:37.671+01:00@PY - maybe, even if the ban was completely revers...@PY - maybe, even if the ban was completely reversed, most pubs wouldn't allow smoking in the main bar area, although I'd expect some little basic one-room working-class boozers like the Pineapple in Edgeley and the Albert in Withington would do.<br /><br />However, I would expect most pubs apart from a few up-market dining venues and achingly trendy craft wanker places to make some accommodation for indoor smoking. If nothing else, pubs could fully enclose and heat their current draughty outdoor smoking areas.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53401348119217170582016-05-04T16:38:28.300+01:002016-05-04T16:38:28.300+01:00This PY must live in a vacuum. Outside of the coun...This PY must live in a vacuum. Outside of the country that is London most of us regular pub goers smoke. None of his 80% are ever seen in pubs. If the law allowed it i would open a pub for smokers. A vast amount of money could be made and all the non smoking pubs would be empty. Live in the real world PY and butt out of our pubs.Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-56618956850537740302016-05-04T13:15:39.913+01:002016-05-04T13:15:39.913+01:00"And most non-smoking pubgoers are actually t..."And most non-smoking pubgoers are actually tolerant, sociable people who are happy to socialise with their smoking mates."<br /><br />Of course they are - and the vast, vast majority of smokers are courteous enough to understand that their non-smoking mates don't want to sit in a cloud of cigarette smoke, so when they need a cigarette they pop outside or lean out of the window or similar. <br /><br />This is just reality now. The culture has shifted from the 90s. Blowing smoke into someone's face is no longer even remotely socially acceptable, and non-smokers are no longer willing to sit in a smoky bar. Most smokers don't even consider it acceptable to smoke in their own homes when they have non-smoking guests - in fact I know several smokers who don't smoke indoors full stop, because they don't want their house to stink of fags.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-43506126953347801422016-05-03T20:33:07.174+01:002016-05-03T20:33:07.174+01:00"smokers are considerably more likely than no..."smokers are considerably more likely than non-smokers to visit pubs."<br /><br />Which isn't the same thing at all as saying that pub-goers are considerably more likely to be smokers than non-smokers.<br /><br />For an intelligent, rational man, you don't half descend into some Daily Mail style strawman bashing polemic at times. <br /><br />You know perfectly well that I support a partial reversal of the smoking ban. For one thing, I don't think it would make much difference. I can hardly think of any pubs that I regularly go in that would even consider for a split second re-allowing smoking in the main bar - and I go in plenty of keg only, working class, wet led pubs as well as the classic middle class ale house/craft beer emporium.<br />PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-25300224639924665922016-05-03T19:59:25.042+01:002016-05-03T19:59:25.042+01:00Many of those 80% are the kind of prissy people wh...Many of those 80% are the kind of prissy people who would never go to pubs anyway. Even now, smokers are considerably more likely than non-smokers to visit pubs.<br /><br />And most non-smoking pubgoers are actually tolerant, sociable people who are happy to socialise with their smoking mates, rather than joyless Guardianistas who prefer to sit in splendid isolation looking with contempt at the dirty plebs.<br /><br />And if you're so confident of the result, why not give it a try and see if you're proved right?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-17248478709737117122016-05-03T17:11:43.524+01:002016-05-03T17:11:43.524+01:00"Yes and if there was an option of smoking/no..."Yes and if there was an option of smoking/no smoking pubs then no smoking pubs would die"<br /><br />What year is it where you live, 1975? Here in 2016, less than 20% of the population smokes. The idea that you can make a business selling booze to the same small group of hardened drinkers and smokers is yesterdays news. The "regulars" of the 1990s all died of lung cancer and liver disease. <br /><br />Any business that immediately ostracises 80% of its potential customer base is bound to fail. Most under 40s would smell the fug and just turn round and walk straight out of the door again. There might be a small niche market for smokers' bars in cities, but they'd be competing for a small and shrinking number of customers.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-76324989008972630172016-05-03T16:10:47.360+01:002016-05-03T16:10:47.360+01:00See this post. The reason why antismokers are so r...See <a href="http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/led-astray.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>. The reason why antismokers are so reluctant to allow *any* smoking in pubs is that it would demonstrate just how small the genuine demand for non-smoking provision is, at least for drinkers as opposed to diners.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88115419521445885562016-05-03T15:10:35.422+01:002016-05-03T15:10:35.422+01:00Yes and if there was an option of smoking/no smoki...Yes and if there was an option of smoking/no smoking pubs then no smoking pubs would die. ASH and all these tosspot non smokers who never went to pubs anyway know that. Hence no options allowed. We need to take back our pubs from the Puritans. As you say they will ban alcohol next !Lucretius1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18213610249777895917noreply@blogger.com