tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post567136148353121892..comments2024-03-25T18:49:00.608+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Real beer, real countiesCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-39241901281339858872012-05-31T11:35:48.465+01:002012-05-31T11:35:48.465+01:00Stockport is in Cheshire
Liverpool and Barrow-in-...Stockport is in Cheshire<br /><br />Liverpool and Barrow-in-furness are in lancashire<br /><br />Bournemouth is in Hampshire<br /><br />these are immutable truthsJohn's New Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00062230865991670256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-55415106439898332932012-05-27T22:45:41.992+01:002012-05-27T22:45:41.992+01:00The 1974 Re-organisation caused a lot of bad feeli...The 1974 Re-organisation caused a lot of bad feeling here in Wirral and many residents continued to use Cheshire on their mail rather than Merseyside and do to this day. It is worth noting that you can't walk from Birkenhead on the south bank of the Mersey to Liverpool on the north bank unless you have the time and inclination to go the 35 miles via Runcorn. Many Wirral residents don't feel any affinity with Liverpool. Tranmere Rovers and all Wirral amateur teams are affiliated to the Cheshire F.A. A similar situation exists for Rugby Union teams.Birkonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02797631050700297107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-37623826278448503632012-05-26T18:12:44.947+01:002012-05-26T18:12:44.947+01:00Anonymous wrote:
"Well that doesn't nece...Anonymous wrote:<br /><br />"Well that doesn't necessarily negate what the ABC's FAQ says (you're describing it becoming a county borough)"<br /><br />County boroughs were introduced in 1889. Bristol has been a county (or "county corporate") since medieval times. It regained its separate shrievalty and lieutenancy in 1996.<br /><br />I find it surprising that supporters of so-called "traditional counties" are prepared to ignore traditions that go back to the Middle Ages.<br /><br />"Anyway, this is kind of distracting from the main point, is that people have such a strong identification against particular counties that it's caused so much pointless bickering on the internet that you really have to question whether or not it's worth arguing the toss about it."<br /><br />But there's no argument in Bristol. Everyone agrees that it's its own county. I've never met any Bristolian who regards the city as part of Gloucestershire, and who cares what the ABC says? They're a pressure group, not some sort of authority on the matter.Guy Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01273456510453918127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-89520585054844413762012-05-24T08:50:14.123+01:002012-05-24T08:50:14.123+01:00Well that doesn't necessarily negate what the ...Well that doesn't necessarily negate what the ABC's FAQ says (you're describing it becoming a county borough), plus equally there have no doubt been some people living in satellite villages such as Westbury-on-Trym, who traditionally have identified less with the city and more with the surrounding area, although that's probably not the case.<br /><br />Anyway, this is kind of distracting from the main point, is that people have such a strong identification against particular counties that it's caused so much pointless bickering on the internet that you really have to question whether or not it's worth arguing the toss about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88775954736432639962012-05-23T18:04:55.842+01:002012-05-23T18:04:55.842+01:00I wasn't expecting to find this online, but I ...I wasn't expecting to find this online, but I think it settles the matter. It's from Bristol's Royal Charter of 1373, and I presume it's been translated into modern language:<br /><br />http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/27002<br /><br />"WE, of our especial grace, and with the advice and assent of the learned men of our council who have assisted us, have granted and by this our charter have confirmed for us and our heirs to the said burgesses, their heirs and successors for ever, that the said town of Bristol with its suburbs and their precinct, as the boundaries now exist, henceforward shall be separated and exempt in every way from the said counties of Gloucester and Somerset, on land and by water; that it shall be a county in itself and be called the county of Bristol for ever; that the said burgesses, their heirs and successors for ever shall have, fully enjoy and use within the said town of Bristol, the suburbs of the same and their precinct, as the boundaries now exist, the liberties and immunities written below, namely..."<br /><br />Also from "English Historical Documents 1327-1485" by A.R. Myers, page 390: <br /><br />"...in 1373 Bristol became the first provincial town to follow London's lead in gaining the right to elect its own sheriff and become a county of a town".<br /><br />See http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jRsLUVOCqbkC&q=bristol&hl=en#v=snippet&q=bristol&f=false <br /><br />There are plenty of other references confirming Bristol's status as a county since medieval times. A line printed on a map in the 1930s doesn't negate six centuries of tradition.Guy Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01273456510453918127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53362726607863520162012-05-23T17:54:35.716+01:002012-05-23T17:54:35.716+01:00Is this the right place to talk about admin ?Is this the right place to talk about admin ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-90769286069560945362012-05-23T17:00:25.539+01:002012-05-23T17:00:25.539+01:00Well I didn't realize this blog was an extensi...Well I didn't realize this blog was an extension of SABRE! I came here because I was looking for something completely unrelated, and then realized I knew who the author was. I didn't expect a lot of random Sabristi to start popping out of the woodwork though...<br /><br />(And incidentally I'm still banned from SABRE, and there's still a block on my IP address. Is this due to be lifted at any time?)<br /><br />Regarding the county status of Bristol, all I'll say is that the vast majority of Bristolians have never regarded themselves as part of Gloucestershire, and I'd always assumed that this "traditional county" business was about loyalty and a sense of belonging. If it isn't, then what's the point of going on about it?Guy Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01273456510453918127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-91866365910767954462012-05-23T10:09:27.126+01:002012-05-23T10:09:27.126+01:00Guy wrote : "There's no question about wh...Guy wrote : "There's no question about what county Bristol is in. It's been its own county since 1373"<br /><br />No it hasn't. It was one of a number of "County Corporates" (what eventually turned into County Boroughs), but its traditional county remains as Gloucestershire. The Association of British Counties has a FAQ entry on this.<br /><br />Have a look at the Maps section on SABRE (www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps) - the 1932 Ten Mile marks the County Borough boundary (extending northwards towards Henbury and Filton), but the 1930 Quarter Inch shows the traditional boundary along the Avon Gorge.Ritchie333https://www.blogger.com/profile/07307206599130092669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-71597595285977098922012-05-22T22:34:11.076+01:002012-05-22T22:34:11.076+01:00Cookie reading TheRegister. Hmm...Cookie reading TheRegister. Hmm...Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-85788970274794183682012-05-22T18:13:23.153+01:002012-05-22T18:13:23.153+01:00Curmudgeon: "It would be interesting to ask t...Curmudgeon: "It would be interesting to ask the proponents of “new counties” exactly which counties Middlesbrough, Grimsby and Bristol are in nowadays"<br /><br />There's no question about what county Bristol is in. It's been its own county since 1373, with the exception of an unfortunate 22-year hiatus under the late unlamented county of Avon. The designation "City and County of Bristol" was restored in 1996.<br /><br />Don't I know you from somewhere else? :-)Guy Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01273456510453918127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-58177266454097873272012-05-21T10:00:29.686+01:002012-05-21T10:00:29.686+01:00You'd love Lord Howe then
http://www.theregis...You'd love Lord Howe then<br /><br />http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/16/metric_uk/<br /><br />Thing is, he's right. The sooner the country goes fully metric the better. Well done to the beards for using meters in their grog guide.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-24371552565722522852012-05-20T16:34:56.679+01:002012-05-20T16:34:56.679+01:00Oh, I don't think so. The Friends of Real Lanc...Oh, I don't think so. The Friends of Real Lancashire hanker after something that is dead and buried while CAMRA campaigns for something that is alive and thriving (latest figures from the BBPA show that sales of cask ales have now overtaken those of keg ales).John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-91351908536250108262012-05-20T15:49:10.316+01:002012-05-20T15:49:10.316+01:00"I have to say that I have always looked on t...<i>"I have to say that I have always looked on the "Friends of Real Lancashire" and their ilk as the local government equivalent of the Flat Earth Society"</i><br /><br />As CAMRA is the beer equivalent? :pCurmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-88079546448806459792012-05-20T14:29:58.676+01:002012-05-20T14:29:58.676+01:00Honestly, and they say CAMRA members live in the ...Honestly, and they say CAMRA members live in the past!Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-72756875066214353692012-05-20T11:48:33.324+01:002012-05-20T11:48:33.324+01:00You don't even know what's going on in the...You don't even know what's going on in the area in which you live.<br /><br />>Greater Manchester as an administrative area with its own council was abolished in 1986<br /><br />It was. And it was re-established last year as The Greater Manchester Combined Authority. <br /><br />>only lives on in the form of police and fire authorities covering ten separate unitary councils<br /><br />And the Transport Authority. And AGMA. And the Environment COmmission. And the Heath Commission.....<br /><br />Like it or not the major direction of your town is decided by Greater Manchester.<br /><br />Like the Flat Earth Soceity Analogy.<br />And well pointed out that "Old Cheshire" was just as much an admistrative authority as Greater Manchester.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-9996754480948262582012-05-20T09:10:13.953+01:002012-05-20T09:10:13.953+01:00Hmm - I have to say that I have always looked on t...Hmm - I have to say that I have always looked on the "Friends of Real Lancashire" and their ilk as the local government equivalent of the Flat Earth SocietyJohn Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-91900269584267871352012-05-19T19:30:51.937+01:002012-05-19T19:30:51.937+01:00Old Lancashire and Cheshire were not geographical ...Old Lancashire and Cheshire were not geographical features; they were administrative units like any other. The only difference is that they were created hundreds of years ago rather than 38. I see nothing wrong with people feeling loyalty to the old counties, but I can't see how I can live in Lancashire and Merseyside simultaneously, and I've had discussions with the Friends Of Real Lancashire on that very issue; it won't surprise you that we didn't reach a consensus. As, I suspect, neither with you and I!Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-72685240268051922622012-05-19T19:03:02.878+01:002012-05-19T19:03:02.878+01:00My argument is that Southport can still be adminis...My argument is that Southport can still be administered by the "Merseyside" legacy bodies, but at the same time be regarded geographically as part of Lancashire. It is about decoupling administration and geography.<br /><br />Pre-1974, Stockport was one of a very few County Boroughs that covered two historic counties. Everything north of the Mersey (including where I live) is actually in traditional Lancashire.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-12800743062830960322012-05-19T18:14:22.074+01:002012-05-19T18:14:22.074+01:00Your argument is one used by the Southport back in...Your argument is one used by the Southport back into Lancashire brigade, with whom I have argued this point in our local press. It's funny how that one quote by a politician is treated as gospel by people who wouldn't normally trust politicians an inch. My view is that I was born in Liverpool, Lancashire, and I live in Southport, Merseyside. The county councils were abolished, but the counties weren't, so Merseyside and Greater Manchester still exist. The situation is complicated by the fact that the legislation that created the new counties didn't contain a clause explaining whether or not the old counties were abolished.<br /><br />A further twist is that the Post Office has said we don't need to use counties in our addresses any more, so I don't, but there's nothing to stop anyone doing so, but in terms of getting your post delivered, it's irrelevant.<br /><br />Some clarity about the status of old and new counties would be welcome because the law is not unambiguous, and therefore open to interpretation. I agree that the 1974 reorganisation was never intended to change geography, but then redrawing lines on the map never does anyway. No hills were moved in the making of these new counties.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-47973371749154489312012-05-19T15:40:00.145+01:002012-05-19T15:40:00.145+01:00As someone born in Middlesex, who lives in Middles...As someone born in Middlesex, who lives in Middlesex, I couldn't agree more.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com