tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post8132556234757020987..comments2024-03-29T08:01:51.705+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Quality must always trump choiceCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-11956422648765228052016-04-21T19:40:50.519+01:002016-04-21T19:40:50.519+01:00www.madpub.us
Just spent a week with this place as...www.madpub.us<br />Just spent a week with this place as my local.<br />Gazillions of keg beers on tap and smoking is welcome - they own a cigar rolling shop next door and there's nothing like puffing on a hand-rolled stogie while working my way through some of the selection of beers.<br />There's a lot wrong with the US drinking scene including the ridiculous 21 year old legal drinking age and the bizarre acceptability of morbid obesity as normal while treating smokers as pariahs.<br />But when they get it right - and Florida has plenty of really good dive bars - their pubs are brilliant.Professor Pie-Tinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69282154596913456502016-04-21T15:17:06.208+01:002016-04-21T15:17:06.208+01:00One of my favourite watering holes has a sign just...One of my favourite watering holes has a sign just inside the door which is an arrow labelled Fosters pointing back out of the door. The lack of big name lager tends to keep the Lout swiggers away. Instead we have Sam Smiths Organic and Taddy, Camden Hells Lager, and Kaltenberg (the real one). Then three changing cask beers, and a few keg beers including a couple of what could be conceived as craft, and Shipyard that claims to be craft but is anything but. Turnover is good in this bar and quality is always equally good because the choice brings people in who want something different and don't want to travel 8 miles into the city to get it. ElectricPicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-31027026725949078542016-04-19T21:15:55.554+01:002016-04-19T21:15:55.554+01:00Who said anything about “community value” and &quo...Who said anything about “community value” and "supporting community assets". Those are your words Cookie, not mine! My argument was purely hypothetical, as I’ve no intention of running a pub; but I do know licensees who have done what I proposed, and removed all the big brand industrial lagers. They have done this to attract a certain clientele, and contrary to your cynical dismissal of such establishments, they are all thriving.<br /><br />It may sound snobbish to you, but there are certain types of people and certain types of pub I prefer to avoid. I’m sure these people feel the same about me, as you so eruditely point out. That doesn’t’ bother me in the slightest, as I much prefer a quiet pint and some interesting conversations with a few friends, to getting a pool cue shoved in my face, whilst being sworn at – that’s if I can even hear what’s being said above the 90 decibel sound system blasting out gangsta rap.<br /><br />Horses for courses, old chap!<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-67224913518917228762016-04-19T20:30:40.915+01:002016-04-19T20:30:40.915+01:00but I note the report is only based on pubs involv...but I note the report is only based on pubs involved in the Cask Marque scheme, now they have alot of pubs in the scheme so the stats arent faulty on volume terms alone, but those pubs are very often pubco operated tied pubs Enterprise, Punch,Taylor Walkor,Greene King etc, where its not unfair to say beer quality or even beer choice arent top of the list of things they are worrying about.<br /><br />and Vianet well they are the ones behind the system that pubcos install in pubs so that firstly pubs can only sell the beer the pubco gives them because it all is locked in with the till system, but also measures the yield of the cask through flow metering, and most pubcos operate on a targetted near 97% yield from a cask,thats basically just 2 pints they can lose in spillage/tasters & spoilage.<br /><br />and the tenant pays for every pint under the yield, so how many free tasters do you think that kind of pub hands out to encourage people to drink something different, how often do you think a pub like that even checks the taste of the beer themselves, how often do they pull something thats clearly gone.<br /><br />review those same stats with that in mind and the picture might be less cloudy than a London murky & actually had one of those in Wetherspoons near Stratford recently, and it was cask marque'd too.<br /><br />to be fair Cask Marque are trying to educate pubcos and tenants and their staff on how to look after and sell beer, but to be honest thats the real point of that report, "look how much beer you could sell if you only focussed on it properly to begin with", but its a market sector which measures success in how many frozen microwaved dinners you can sell not how many beer quality accolades you getStonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656315721111561414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-22675221743658376532016-04-19T16:41:48.868+01:002016-04-19T16:41:48.868+01:00Just focusing on cask beer, 3 is enough to cover m...Just focusing on cask beer, 3 is enough to cover most drinkers preferences: a hoppy pale ale, a best bitter, and a porter (or maybe dark mild). 6 is enough for a really good range. It's tricky to pull this off as conditioning etc times vary; but i'd like to see more pubs flex up and down with demand. For example, 3 beers midweek, 6 at the weekend, putting quality first and generally just being smarter about what they sell and when.Kieran Lyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309306469722070363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69349159677624097972016-04-19T16:13:43.122+01:002016-04-19T16:13:43.122+01:00eye, there's no such thing as community pub, t...eye, there's no such thing as community pub, there's beard pubs and normal pubs. The beard ones need burning down.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-48718151011930629362016-04-19T15:03:18.048+01:002016-04-19T15:03:18.048+01:00Two sides of the same coin there, Cookie.Two sides of the same coin there, Cookie.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-24583664089361918592016-04-19T12:48:48.515+01:002016-04-19T12:48:48.515+01:00Money will not matter as we will print enough to m...Money will not matter as we will print enough to make it a tool of the people, not fat cats.<br />As the economic means of production becomes public we will all be brewdog shareholders.<br />Yes the producers will need to pay the social costs of the harm they create. Whether the pollution is environmental or harms the coherence of our society. We will make sure everyone is happy.<br /><br />It will be a beer and choice Utopia. The choice of National beer and the utopia of universal happiness and wellbeing for all.<br />Jeremy Corbyns Left Nutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-32003603058855299222016-04-19T09:26:03.397+01:002016-04-19T09:26:03.397+01:00I'll let you in on a secret. Plenty of people ...I'll let you in on a secret. Plenty of people lead full and fulfilling lives without caring about beer. They look at the likes of you with more disdain than you look at them.<br /><br />And when your snobbish bar shuts because there's not enough snobs and people like you bleat about "community value" and "supporting community assets" they and we laugh. Then we all go for a burger down Spoons.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-39465191875006769742016-04-19T08:02:18.406+01:002016-04-19T08:02:18.406+01:00Incidentally, the research "Includes taps on ...Incidentally, the research "Includes taps on the bar that are available for use but have no dispense". Which is another thing altogether.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18699029884980904492016-04-18T23:36:35.279+01:002016-04-18T23:36:35.279+01:00Yes, I recognise that, but not all the commenters ...Yes, I recognise that, but not all the commenters have.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-1569924935112026892016-04-18T22:24:57.087+01:002016-04-18T22:24:57.087+01:00Yeah, but actually (unless I've misread the ac...Yeah, but actually (unless I've misread the actual report - <a href="http://cask-marque.co.uk/cask-matters/beer-quality-report-2016/" rel="nofollow">which can be found here</a>) they're definitely talking about "taps". It's not that boozers are "over-ranging" on <i>"15 different sort of Old Semen Socks Ale"</i>. It's across the board (they say) Premium lagers, ciders even.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-70212294152850245452016-04-18T21:05:09.108+01:002016-04-18T21:05:09.108+01:00“There is plenty of good reason why a drinker may ...“There is plenty of good reason why a drinker may not trust the local pish. One being, they once drank it.” Yes, and they discovered it actually tasted of something, rather than the bland, non-descript, international industrial lager TV ads and peer pressure tells them to drink.<br /><br />My comments are nothing to do with CAMRA, Cookie. If it was my pub, I could, and would, sell beers I wanted to sell. Nothing odd ball there. By not stocking big brand, mass-produced swill, I would keep the riff-raff out of my pub. No beery, foul-mouthed, football shirt wearing oiks in my gaff.<br /><br />It’s not a case of removing the choice, but removing the wrong sort of people!<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-68715638387910590892016-04-18T19:19:46.338+01:002016-04-18T19:19:46.338+01:00..and be limited to 2% and only be sold to 25+ yea.....and be limited to 2% and only be sold to 25+ year olds with a letter from their mum.jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-63070483037093444422016-04-18T17:23:36.535+01:002016-04-18T17:23:36.535+01:00But the beer will cost £10 a pintBut the beer will cost £10 a pintDave Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-36073909191011472212016-04-18T14:28:13.702+01:002016-04-18T14:28:13.702+01:00The pub needs to evolve to welcome young people by...The pub needs to evolve to welcome young people by providing a safe alcohol free environment to enjoy ourselves in. Don't need smoke or drunk people to ruin it.Armitage Shankshttp://www.armitage-shanks.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-65004554843485753292016-04-18T13:04:27.811+01:002016-04-18T13:04:27.811+01:00Again there is some truth in what you say, the ...Again there is some truth in what you say, the 'age demographic' for pubs is scary. Quite simply put, the non-smoking virginal lunged youth of today are also being trimmed for a life of 100% liver function. The 'beer after work' is being 'denormalized' almost as quickly as the idea of a 'fag break'. jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18368167181637341202016-04-18T12:42:37.196+01:002016-04-18T12:42:37.196+01:00because CAMRA bully them into it for ideological r...because CAMRA bully them into it for ideological reasons, even though it means piss-poor quality and most likely several punters being put off real ale for life.<br />PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-4655678336185537892016-04-18T12:40:48.290+01:002016-04-18T12:40:48.290+01:00Pubs haven't been able to live off the takings...Pubs haven't been able to live off the takings from piss-head regulars for about 15 years now. All the old piss-heads have died and haven't been replaced.PYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-30626554634060588002016-04-18T10:27:15.522+01:002016-04-18T10:27:15.522+01:00Some pubs will keep the same cask on for several w...Some pubs will keep the same cask on for several weeks. Beermunsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564489130909572144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-86018258448154931882016-04-18T09:22:11.442+01:002016-04-18T09:22:11.442+01:00Loving the long standing CAMRA member perspective....Loving the long standing CAMRA member perspective.<br /><br />Anyone ordering brands they know and trust rather than take a gamble has a "sad, staid, boring and totally predictable live" <br /><br />Is this how CAMRA types see others? There is plenty of good reason why a drinker may not trust the local pish. One being, they once drank it. <br /><br />"I would also consider making a stand and removing ALL the big name stuff" If people don't make the right choices, remove the choice!<br /><br />Thank Christ CAMRA is a minority of odd balls.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-20091568698474487972016-04-18T08:18:18.461+01:002016-04-18T08:18:18.461+01:00When Jeremy is PM you will have both. Out national...When Jeremy is PM you will have both. Out nationalised pubs can have quality and choice because they are not left to market forces which turn them into shops.Jeremy Corbyns Left Nutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-65168098100610625702016-04-18T00:56:06.891+01:002016-04-18T00:56:06.891+01:00"because more choice attracts more customers&..."because more choice attracts more customers"<br /><br />They'll be in addition to all them non-smoking customers who will be a coming over them hills anyday now? As with so many aspects of the Pub trade, or any other retail, giving customers a choice is a tricky beast. There is a definite 'laffer curve' to it. A little bit of choice is a good thing but too much and the customer will simply decide to 'sod this for a game of soldiers'-"Mine's a pint of my usual".jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-37984257427443881732016-04-17T23:01:24.854+01:002016-04-17T23:01:24.854+01:00If 30% of handpumps sell less than 20 pints then t...If 30% of handpumps sell less than 20 pints then the publican must be throwing the other 50+ pints away.Seems hard to believe as this would not cover the cost of the beer.Why sell cask beer?jockohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14787146538153090773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-68082828053803313472016-04-17T22:32:32.668+01:002016-04-17T22:32:32.668+01:00Many pub drinkers will definitely stick to just th...Many pub drinkers will definitely stick to just the one type/brand of beer, and I’ve noticed mainstream lager drinkers to be particularly fastidious about this. You mention the failure of BrewDog’s This Is Lager, in Spoons Mudge, and I must admit I never saw anyone ordering it, during the time it was on sale. <br /><br />This illustrates my point, and it does appear that the lager market is a particularly difficult market to crack. Your average Fosters/Stella/Carling/Kronenbourg drinker seems totally unable to step outside his/her comfort zone, and instead stick purely with what they know.<br /><br />I was in a pub a few weeks ago which had Whitstable Brewery Lager on tap. I was tempted to try a pint, but during the time I was there, I didn’t see a single drop being poured (I had a good view of the bar from where I was sitting). Now here was a pub prepared to be a little different, but the lager drinkers to a man/woman all ignored the local offering and instead plumped for the big, international brand they felt safe with. What a sorry state of affairs, people too scared to push the boat out, just ever so slightly, in order to try something different for once in their sad, staid, boring and totally predictable lives.<br /><br />Why didn’t I go for the local lager? Because that tap had, in all probability dispensed less than the 20 pints a week; as highlighted in your post Mudge. I didn’t want to be that person who is served a beer which had been sitting in the lines for several days! <br /><br />I suspect the next time the Whitstable Brewery rep calls up, the pub will say the beer didn’t sell. No fault of the pub; although if it was my pub I would have gone out of my way to promote the local brew. I would also consider making a stand and removing ALL the big name stuff, but it’s easy to make such sweeping statements whilst sitting here in front of a computer screen, rather than counting the weekend’s takings and wondering why they’re so low!<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.com