tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post8466066430908790297..comments2024-03-16T04:06:28.481+00:00Comments on The Pub Curmudgeon: Turn the old man overCurmudgeonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-26275320056473764132016-10-12T14:37:52.759+01:002016-10-12T14:37:52.759+01:00Keep it coming, Michael. Your comments are very we...Keep it coming, Michael. Your comments are very welcome and exactly the kind of memories I like to hear :-)Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53350104111685691822016-10-12T13:31:36.547+01:002016-10-12T13:31:36.547+01:00Sorry to carry this on, but my previous post, rega...Sorry to carry this on, but my previous post, regarding Aspull and its nine pubs, would seem to the unknowing to be somewhat of an exaggeration - but I kid you not. In fact I will name them, and commit them to posterity here on this very Blog. Starting from the top of the village - Balcarres Arms, Red Lion, The Victoria, New Inn, The Moorgate, Queens Head, Running Horses, Hare & Hounds, and ending up at the Gerrard Arms. Their fate ? Two are in the current GBG, one is an Indian Restaurant, 3 are housing and the Labour Club is now a small supermarket..<br />Of course in those days (late 1980`s) cask was unknown to me/probably dead in the area anyway, and Castlemaine, Harp and Carling Black Label predominated, though I do remember trying Boddingtons Bitter in the Gerrard, and Burtonwood Top Hat in the Moorgate.<br />Sorry for clogging your post up with these irrelevant musings Mr Curmudgeon, but I know at least it is on a subject that is close to your heart !<br />Cheers....Michael Henchardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-29854052747898545112016-10-12T12:52:46.364+01:002016-10-12T12:52:46.364+01:00Yes Martin. It is certainly a shift towards the Mi...Yes Martin. It is certainly a shift towards the Micropub. All the people I see in these bars however are the same people that used to frequent the pubs - the same age-wise - early 40`s to mid 60`s I should say - the very people that would have gone to trad pubs years ago. I don`t necessarily see a younger age group in these bars..<br />Just think, when I was in my late teens I was drinking in the Aspull area of Wigan. There were NINE pubs, one Labour Club and one British Legion in this village alone ! We rubbed shoulders with, and actively seeked out the older generation that went to these pubs, because that`s what one did in those days - it was a laugh, listening to the owd uns. I really do miss those days ! For me now, Wigan town centre itself is as a desert...Michael Henchardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-81872861631385129912016-10-12T00:09:14.206+01:002016-10-12T00:09:14.206+01:00Wigan would make a good case study in changes over...Wigan would make a good case study in changes over the last 20 years. Pubs like the Old Pear Tree, Springfield and Royal Oak used to be Beer Guide stalwarts, now as Michael notes it's largely micro. Even the excellent John Bull dropped out. But the emergence of new bars and micros is largely seen as a sign of a resurgence in Wigan's beer scene. retiredmartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429804437739227082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-20989362191405350532016-10-11T15:36:13.298+01:002016-10-11T15:36:13.298+01:00Well said Mr Curmudgeon. With you all the way on t...Well said Mr Curmudgeon. With you all the way on this one. Take Wigan for example - (only !) 5 entries, with four of those being micropubs/bars...Please God, take me back to my youth, (I`m only late 40`s for Chrissakes !) when every fifth building in town-centres were trad pubs - and they were jam packed too....Michael Henchardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-32828758940745325822016-10-09T16:04:20.219+01:002016-10-09T16:04:20.219+01:00"Your blog is turning into things you don’t l...<i>"Your blog is turning into things you don’t like about the modern world. From craft beer to trendy bars. No matter. Tis your view, I guess."</i><br /><br />Hasn't it always been like that? And I haven't yet got to the stage of saying "I'll be dead by then anyway." Quite.<br />Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-50536121487878530852016-10-09T14:05:46.049+01:002016-10-09T14:05:46.049+01:00Your blog is turning into things you don’t like ab...Your blog is turning into things you don’t like about the modern world. From craft beer to trendy bars. No matter. Tis your view, I guess.<br /><br />On CAMRAs guide, should CAMRA follow your many suggestions on this, from removing craft bars to removing Weatherspoon chain pubs, it becomes “The Trad Pub Guide” not a “Good Beer Guide”. As Paul has commented. In the Levenshulme district of your branch, an area not enjoying the prosperity of Didsbury, you would point anyone looking for cask ale, craft beer or authentic lager to a craft bar not one of the down at heel Trad pubs serving smooth & fosters. In some small Yorkshire towns I have contracted in, you’d point people to the Spoons if they wanted a drinkable pint of cask beer rather than Sarsons.<br /><br />Maybe it is time for your National Trust of Pubs? I suspect you would have many members if you took your idea to fruition. Not me. I would not join a middle class version of the working man’s club union, but I suspect you’d find your market. It would be complimentary to many other beer clubs, not competition.<br /><br />On the CAMRA view that cafes are no replacement for pubs. The revealed economic preference of many Britons is that coffee shops have more daytime use than pubs or bars. I don’t think they are direct replacements for each other, serving different purposes, but coffee shops are on the up and pubs on the down regardless of your personal preference or the views of CAMRA officials. The free Wi-Fi and lack of daytime alkies make them appealing from a home worker perspective.<br /><br />On the inclusiveness or otherwise of Craft bars. Is there a generalisation? I have seen some to be middle class enclaves in a market of more working class pubs. Some are arguably for elderly CAMRA snobs. Some appear more welcoming to a wider and more diverse clientele than many pubs. I think you can tell by looking in the window without walking in but you can walk in for the cost of a pint. The hospitality market appears to be retreating into niches. This is one. It’s somebody’s cup of tea, if not yours.<br /><br />The argument that these bars are damaging pubs is the same fixed market sliced up idea that permeates a lot of CAMRA. There are a fixed number of punters going out to drink beer and will do so in whatever establishments are available? Restrict the choice to what you approve of. I think a diverse offering attracts many more people out. People don’t go out for a drink if there is nothing that appeals. Trad pubs appeal to some, there is also a market for other establishments and those are not necessarily taking the customers of the former.<br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-9297235493059686472016-10-09T12:45:16.555+01:002016-10-09T12:45:16.555+01:00That's a very fair point about "body lang...That's a very fair point about "body language" of pub. Easy to forget many folk happy with posing tables and TV sport rather than the traditional view of a pub that I tend to prefer.retiredmartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429804437739227082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-38867664495961347262016-10-09T08:26:19.051+01:002016-10-09T08:26:19.051+01:00@Martin - the new-build dining pubs do at least sp...@Martin - the new-build dining pubs do at least speak the body language of "pub", and IME many have a "public bar" area with pool table and possibly TV sport where there's no expectation of having to eat. <br /><br />The latest Premier Inn TV advert features a group of scaffolders working away, and no doubt they'll shoot a few rounds of pool and sink a few Carlings in the next-door Brewer's Fayre.<br /><br />High-end gastropubs are a different matter, of course.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-86133422848552962232016-10-09T01:49:48.463+01:002016-10-09T01:49:48.463+01:00Both types of pubs have a place in encouraging bee...Both types of pubs have a place in encouraging beer culture. However, as an overseas lover of English pubs, I think there is a core difference between the new trendy pubs and the traditional English pubs. This difference is in the ambiance and volume. I can tell you that the trendy English pubs are well on the way to the television and high volume music path that American pubs exhibit. Here you cannot talk in a pub. I know because I just came home from one of the quiet ones and the volume is still too high. This English trend I have witnessed is a disturbing one because it does undercut traditional pub. You should cherish the traditional pubs for their quiet conversation. This aspect of the pub can easily slip away over time. I know the GBG is not focused on this aspect of the pub, but I do think the English will miss this when it is gone. It is not enough to save the beer. There is more to a pub than beer. Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04039590363732278703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-10259315547284715622016-10-08T23:19:10.724+01:002016-10-08T23:19:10.724+01:00ps. The service in both pubs was friendly and effi...ps. The service in both pubs was friendly and efficient, and the staff were also knowledgeable about the different beers they were selling.Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-35258772106011903012016-10-08T23:16:27.108+01:002016-10-08T23:16:27.108+01:00There’s nothing which says a trendy “new-style” ba...There’s nothing which says a trendy “new-style” bar can’t be a community outlet in its own right. And the point about a narrow age range is a bit like having a massive chip on your shoulder. A friend and I visited two “new-style” bars in London, on Friday evening. Admittedly they both started life as traditional pubs, and still maintain some traditional features and fittings, but in both cases we were by far the oldest people present. Did we feel conspicuous or out of place? Hell no!<br /><br />It was both refreshing and encouraging to be with people who were obviously enjoying the beer (and cider), whilst socialising and having a good time; and that’s surely what it’s all about.<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-47948705979155649902016-10-08T23:06:27.802+01:002016-10-08T23:06:27.802+01:00I think my branch are as objective as they can be ...I think my branch are as objective as they can be when it comes to choosing entries, but the point CAMRA make about pubs being monitored throughout the year, is a bit of a myth.<br /><br />Using NBSS results, submitted via WhatPub, has helped though; even if there are a handful of non-computer-literate dinosaurs residing in the branch who don’t use the system.<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-18177126989988664702016-10-08T21:55:48.097+01:002016-10-08T21:55:48.097+01:00True, but it’s the idea that community ownership w...True, but it’s the idea that community ownership will be any solution and thus the value of ACVs.KJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339137349962768014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-2272673906252994032016-10-08T19:21:22.705+01:002016-10-08T19:21:22.705+01:00The GBG is only as objective as the branches that ...The GBG is only as objective as the branches that submit entries: In my area they include their favourite watering holes which in a number of cases don't meet the criteria of consistently good beer and haven't for decades in at least two cases.electricpicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144970068645280352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-20790363013021178682016-10-08T18:42:38.606+01:002016-10-08T18:42:38.606+01:00I agree with that Paul about the BEER Guide. Ther...I agree with that Paul about the BEER Guide. There's Marston and Greene King dining pubs with posing tables to drink at that are just as unattractive to me.<br /><br />Otherwise I agree with Mudge, and thankfully with CAMRA in this case, that the new bars are no substitute for proper pubs.retiredmartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429804437739227082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-69724017347047508472016-10-08T17:21:46.513+01:002016-10-08T17:21:46.513+01:00* CAMRA supports community pubs
* CAMRA stuffs the...* CAMRA supports community pubs<br />* CAMRA stuffs the GBG with new-style bars<br />* CAMRA speak with forked tongueCurmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-53497081293333322052016-10-08T17:20:39.446+01:002016-10-08T17:20:39.446+01:00A "community pub" doesn't have to be...A "community pub" doesn't have to be owned by the local community, of course. Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-81426814203507909422016-10-08T16:18:05.861+01:002016-10-08T16:18:05.861+01:0075 community owned pubs out of, what, 50,000 pubs ...75 community owned pubs out of, what, 50,000 pubs in total. And the (or a, not sure if there is more than 1) national director of CAMRA thinks this is a surge and a new model of ownership.KJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339137349962768014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5623537812609722663.post-59853956301029647962016-10-08T16:03:49.188+01:002016-10-08T16:03:49.188+01:00The Good Beer Guide is just that; a guide to place...The Good Beer Guide is just that; a guide to places selling good beer. It is NOT a Good Pub Guide! As most of us are aware, there is another publication which calls itself just that.<br /><br />CAMRA branches are therefore free to select whatever type of outlet they like for the GBG; as long as its meets the criteria of selling consistently good beer. “Trendy bars” are therefore just as eligible as traditional back street locals.<br />Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.com