Chairman Nik Antona said:Whether or not it is a desirable policy is debatable. But is it really CAMRA’s role to be campaigning for generalised subsidies to public transport? It comes across as stepping outside its campaigning objectives. Yes, it may bring some benefit to pubs, although probably less than might be imagined, but that’s only a tangential effect. It would be just as logical to campaign for a cap on taxi fares, or funding research into self-driving cars.“Cheaper bus fares are great news for the beer and pub trade, making it affordable for people to go out to visit their locals.
“Extending the £2 bus fare scheme for England is something that we had called on Transport ministers to do so that pubs, social clubs, breweries and cider producers grappling with the cost-of-business crisis can benefit from people being able to get to the pub in an affordable and environmentally friendly way.”
It probably has a lot to do with the long-standing overlap between CAMRA members and public transport enthusiasts. At one point CAMRA did set up a national public transport campaign group, although mention of it seems to have disappeared from their public website. Many taxpayers on modest incomes may well question whether it is a good use of public funds to subsidise people to go to the pub.
No doubt someone will pipe up that it will act as a deterrent to drink-driving, but in reality the idea that a higher bus fare will tempt someone to offend isn’t really credible. This is akin to the suggestion that is sometimes heard of linking drink-driving with high soft drink prices.
Public transport subsidies are not a no-brainer – it is a matter of legitimate political debate as to whether they provide a worthwhile return to the taxpayer. Given this, even if they do tempt a few more customers to visit pubs, to actively support them is exceeding CAMRA’s remit. It should go no further than observing that they may be helpful to some pubgoers.
You should support CAMRA more instead of criticising it all the time.
ReplyDeleteBuses are great. How about pubs on buses? That could be a great CAMRA campaign.
Support CAMRA! Support Buses !
So that is why the bus fare had gone down to £2 from £5+ return, slightly less than £5 single ticket for a mere 6 miles to a bigger town (Arriva bus company). The country is a mess anyway so I will be enjoying lower fares as long as I can. A few more beer trips come Spring will be welcome.
ReplyDeleteMore criticism of CAMRA? Sigh.
ReplyDeleteCriticism is welcome, I for instance had to hand in my CAMRA membership card because the far right management didn't push enough diversity and net zero gospel down my throat.
DeleteI see massive buses trundling around during the day with hardly anyone on them. Total waste of taxpayers' money.
ReplyDeleteI think CAMRA should first campaign for a maximum pint that costs £2. Why campaign for a maximum bus ticket price but not a max beer price. It's a free market economy we live in Friedrich. Perhaps they should also campaign for a member discount from Mountain Warehouse and Millets.
DeleteAnd Greggs. Don't forget Greggs.
DeleteI thought CAMRA wanted me to support my local? That walking distance.
ReplyDeleteNow it wants me to get a cheap bus and support a pub miles away?
Where does CAMRA want me to drink?
Please, I'm confused,
Although no longer a CAMRA member, I nevertheless welcome the campaign’s support for this initiative. I really fail to see why anyone should object to it either, even if any benefits it might bring to the beleaguered licensed trade are only marginal.
ReplyDeleteIt makes a change for the government we have in charge, at the moment, to actually be doing something to help normal people, and to give a much needed boost to both the hospitality trade, and a public transport sector that has been starved of investment .
I already have my OAP Concessionary Bus Pass, so whilst not needing this initiative, I still welcome it, wholeheartedly.
The issue is not whether the policy is per se desirable, but whether campaigning for it is ultra vires for CAMRA. And, if this isn't, how far would it need to go before it became so?
DeleteOf course you're not going to look a gift horse in the mouth when it comes to a free bus pass, but is it really a good use of public money to pay for free bus travel for better-off pensioners such as you and me (when I eventually get there)?
I believe than in London the elders get a free oyster pass at age 60 whilst in the rest of the country people have to wait for state retirement age, and could be dead by then. Maybe those CAMRA boyos should get into some levelling up. What about the people 60-66 who do not live in London. Come on we need this more than beer festivals. Pubs not Fests please CAMBOs. Also have they ever looked at the buses in rural Wales?
DeleteCAMRA should be more concerned with the fuel price support that gets withdrawn 1st April. Last time I looked pubs sold beer not buses.
DeleteFree bus travel gets better-off pensioners and worse-off pensioners out and about more thus benefiting their physical and mental health and reducing their reliance on the cash strapped NHS.
DeleteFree TV licenses gets better-off pensioners and worse-off pensioners sat on their arses all day long to the detriment of their physical and mental health which can only be a bad thing for the cash strapped NHS.
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If you feel strongly about it though write a letter to What's Brewing.
No, that's gone now, so it had best be a motion for the AGM weekend in Sheffield soon.
CAMRA members are mainly older people with free bus passes anyway?
ReplyDeleteBus discounts will disproportionately benefit younger drinkers who all drink that craft beer,
Seems to me we could spend the money better by giving pensioners a free beer pass alongside a free bus pass.
I understand the point you're making but I don't see why a campaign group can't support an initiative that has indirect benefits to their cause.
ReplyDeleteIts the most realistic, cost effective and politically possible way to boost mobility for the widest number of people, this should be good for discretionary, in person industries.
To touch on the wider issue briefly whilst not derailing the blog, the Government are clearly hoping this will be revenue positive and commercial operators will take more risks, as well as potentially reducing overall subsidiary levels to loss making but socially desirable tendered local bus services. Whether it will work is debatable, but that's the reason it is a trial. I doubt the wider benefits will be factored in, but if ridership is up but revenue neutral it may continue with some tweaks.
The government (central) have no expectations on revenue, positive or negative. it's a city mayors initiative.
DeleteThe city mayors, Kahn & Burnham worked on data from European cities showing discount off peak public transport offers boosted economic activity.
It expanded a city tax base by giving a boost to shops, restaurants, bars etc.
All the data was pre covid & covered multiple cities.
It's not a controversial economic idea, that public infrastructure can provide an environment to improve private enterprise. Both the centre right and centre left tend to accept the premise.
So any revenue comes from expanding the tax base, not a case of more people on buses making up for charging everyone else.
It works as a public subsidy paying off down the line through an expanded tax base of more business tax payers.
We will see if it works in the UK.
I'm reading your blog in a pub 15 miles from my home, it will cost me £2 each way, before the government scheme it would be a £9.50 day ticket. The saving on bus fare will be spent in the local economy. Whilst it maybe outside CAMRA's remit, it is right to highlight the potential benefits to consumers.
ReplyDeleteBut why should the government subsidise your leisure pursuits? And how does extracting £7.50 from taxpayers to allow you to buy a pint in one place rather than another benefit the economy overall?
DeleteIt benefits the economy because I would travel less often, and would spend less, if I were to drink close to home, that is something I can do pretty much any time I like. The government are not merely subsidising my leisure activities, but also helping peoples expenditure with activities such as going to work and shopping. Not to mention supporting thousands of jobs in the bus industry.
DeleteDo these "buses" have toilets?
ReplyDeleteOh dear, it's reported that Labour are going to scrap the £2 bus fare cap. Plus there are rumours they will means-test over-65 bus passes. Hopefully all the CAMRA members who voted Labour will be pleased with themselves.
ReplyDelete