Tuesday 1 February 2022

The fickle finger of fate

In 2009, Marston’s opened a new dining pub called the Fallow Deer prominently situated on the A6 Chapel-en-le-Frith bypass in Derbyshire. It was faced with stone to match the local environment, resulting in a more attractive and upmarket appearance than is typical of such establishments. I called in a year or so later to see what it was like, but unsurprisingly found it entirely geared up for eating, with nowhere to just sit down for a drink.

A few years later it was refurbished and renamed the Fickle Mermaid. While Fallow Deer is just a generic “rural name” this did in fact relate to the local legend of the mermaid's pool on the side of Kinder Scout, where allegedly a beautiful mermaid used to lure men and either make them immortal or end their lives. However, it’s doubtful whether many people actually knew of that – I had to look it up – and to most it would simply come across as a rather odd and whimsical name for a pub fifty miles from the sea.

I didn’t really give it much more thought, but was surprised to read a report that planning permission had been granted to demolish it and replace it with a petrol station and takeaway coffee shop. It has to be said that if a large and expensive new-build pub is to be demolished only thirteen years after it opened it is a very poor reflection on the original site selection.

I’ve written before about how these family dining pubs, while they may have little appeal to the beer enthusiast, have been something of a success story for the pub industry in recent years, and Marston’s and Greene King have both invested considerable sums in developing them. Indeed, Marston’s opened a new one in my original home town of Runcorn, the Ten Lock Flight, shortly before Covid struck. I have often noticed when passing how busy they appear to be at teatime and early evening at weekends, a time when I would never really consider going to a pub unless in the later stages of an urban pub crawl.

However, maybe the clue is in the title of that blogpost, “Follow the money to the retail park.” I don’t claim to be an expert on pub site selection, but I suspect an important factor for this type of pub is to have a substantial population within ten or fifteen minutes’ drive, and a further plus point is being able to combine the pub visit with a bit of shopping or another leisure activity such as the cinema or bowling.

The Fickle Mermaid, while it is in a prominent position on the main road heading from the Manchester area into the Peak District, doesn’t actually have all that people living nearby. If people are going out for a day in Peak, they’ll probably not want to eat until they actually get there and, while I can imagine it might become busy with returning trippers in the early evenings at weekends, that isn’t going to be enough to sustain it throughout the week.

In any case, the planning application was rejected on appeal, so it remains to be seen what Marston’s response is. They could try to make another go of it, which has not been unknown elsewhere, or find another pub operator who is interested. I don’t see that a dining pub in that location is inherently a lost cause. Or they could board it up and leave it to rot, and come back with another planning application in eighteen months, by which time it will have become an eyesore.

This prompted me to ask on Twitter for other examples of short-lived new-build pubs, and quite a few were forthcoming. Another in my local area was the Bandstand in Gorton, Manchester, which stood on a small retail park and can’t have lasted fifteen years. And, in the late 1980s, Banks’s built the Springbrook at the A50/A56 junction on the eastern fringe of Warrington, where planning permission has now been requested to redevelop the site into a care home. There were plenty of instances of brand new pubs of various types that had barely lasted twenty years.

I odn’t know how it compares with other types of retail and hospitality business, but pub operators in general seem to have a distinctly patchy record on identifying locations for new pubs. While Wetherspoon’s are not generally in the business of new-builds, they have had their fair share of missteps over the years. One of the worst was the Sir Edwin Chadwick in Longsight, Manchester, where they totally misread the character of the area and the way it was likely to develop. I think it only lasted about five years. Apparently, Tim Martin, on one of his regular tours, walked through the door, took a quick look around and instantly said “Get rid!” Also in this general area, are the Lodestar in Neston, Cheshire and the Red Lyon in Whitchurch, Shropshire, neither of which lasted long under their stewardship and are now closed. One can only assume that Wetherspoon’s misjudged the character of the towns concerned, as they seem to thrive in other places of similar size.

20 comments:

  1. We have a Marstons one just up the road here. Totally food orientated and ghastly families. Four handpumps but if real ale is available its warm and lifeless. Cider offering is fruit cider or nothing. Lager choice is very pedestrian. Staff haven't a clue and getting served always a lottery. Always empty by 9pm.

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  2. The Roundhouse, later know as The Lonsdale on Belmont Way (Stockport) didn't last long. 20 Years maybe?

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    1. It was there when I moved to Stockport in 1985, and apparently didn't close until 2010, so it lasted longer than some. The Nip Inn down the hill lasted from 1970 to 2002.

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  3. Only Marstons I've ever been to was Fleeting Brook Rotisserie in Caterham when I had some time to kill. I had one lacklustre pint. Never been fond of Marstons beers anyway. This was in 2016 so might not have been a rotisserie then.

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  4. There is a supermarket next to the pub. I think that they share a carpark.
    But it isn't actually on the main road from Manchester to the Peak District, rather it is on the link road from the small town of Chapel-en-le-Frith to the main road so probably gets little passing trade.
    Returning from the Peak to Manchester there are more obvious and more accessible eateries in Disley and High Lane

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    1. It's on the roundabout and clearly visible from it. It's not uncommon for pubs in such situations to be accessed by going a brief distance down the side road.

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    2. It isn't really visible until it is too late to make the decision to turn into Foresters Way

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    3. See my reply to KJP. Very little "passing trade" is pure serendipity.

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  5. In Linlithgow there is a pub or inn which has only been open since sometime in the Seventeenth Century. It has always done very well. A public bar which has no problem with dogs. A nice cosy lounge bar. No food. Good range of beers and always a guest beer from anywhere in UK. No telly or music in lounge. Hosts regular folk concerts and festivals. In every way my idea of the Moon Under Water.
    Recently Greene King took control of it as part of the package when they took over Bellhaven.
    Now they want to change the name, The Black Bitch, which relates to a medieval legend. The town symbol is this black greyhound bitch chained to a tree, in the middle of a little island in the middle of Linlithgow Loch.
    For centuries anybody born within the town boundary, regardless of sex, creed or colour has been proud to be called A Black Bitch. Alex Salmond is one.
    Please Google, Duckduckgo, etc. for the full story.
    But please, please sign the petition. If the name change goes ahead it will be the death of this lovely old pub, because all the locals will boycott. And the trade from formerly shocked tourists will not make up the difference. On the other hand in a year or so there might be a nice licensed premises going cheap in a busy wee toon.
    Curmudgeon, I hope you don't mind my using your excellent blog as soapbox. But it is pub related.

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  6. I think that that you have very much summed up the location issue for a family pub. There has to be another attraction in the vicinity or maybe it has to be in a densely populated area.
    Coming to the Fickle Mermaid and your link:
    First, appeal is to the planning inspectorate based in Bristol; this seems to have just been rejected by the local planning authority. That is not meant in a critical way of your statement.
    The link says: “The application was inundated with objections from residents demanding the building not be demolished for fear of increased traffic, littering and noise.
    One local described the Peak District pub as ‘the only real family pub in the area’".
    It is on or near a main road. Only those already on that road are going to use it: No one is going to drive there just to use its facilities.
    So what if it is “the only real family pub in the area”? There seems no demand for a family pub or if there was it would be successful.
    Looking on Whatpub there seems to be a similar establishment 1.8 miles away; car park, lunch and evening meals. 1.8 miles may seem a lot in urban terms but most, if not all, patrons are going to come by car.
    I would suggest that councillors got windy by the objections and thought of votes rather than the issue. If you start a business that is not a success you have to keep it running?

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    1. The presence of a pub in a prominent location on a main road is in itself an advertisement for it. People passing it may well think "I might give that a try on another occasion." Very little "passing trade" is just serendipity.

      The other pub you refer to is the Lamb at Chinley, which is a very different pub and I would say appeals to a somewhat different market. It's on a much less important road, and many of the people passing the Fickle Mermaid won't even be aware of its existence.

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  7. Capital investment is an indicator of where the smart money thinks there is a long-term prospect. Casual dining pub themed restaurants are the only pubs getting built. He closure surprises as the investment appears to indicate permanence when in fact all is process and there is no permanence. The capital investment indicates an expectation of long-term return, which in these examples has not been fulfilled.

    New drinking venues appear to be cheaply converted shops. Low cost entry, low cost exit, Temporary and short term in every sense. You would not build a new drinkers pub today.

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  8. I know CAMRA is riddled by Trots and Marxists but now the Wokerati is taking over, regarding the diversity consultation.

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  9. The Sir Edwin Chadwick made it into the 2001 Good Beer Guide before shutting.

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  10. CAMRA has truly lost the plot, now thay are telling homebrewers how to make brewing more sustainable. Utter twats.

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  11. Is all the anti CAMRA comments why you were sacked from OT?

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  12. Another one that's just occurred to me is the Samuel Webster on Redhouse Lane in Bredbury, which again can't have lasted more than twenty years.

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  13. Your round-up of the year brought me here. We have 2 late 80s-early 90s Marston's family feedbag houses within a mile or 2 of my house, both rebuilds of old traditional pubs on the same site. They're both now up for sale, one has planning permission for a care home, the other has rumours of a Lidl store. It's noticeable that in the surrounding area, surprisingly, pubs seem to survive, but these are obviously struggling, often closing early and it's obvious the pubco is looking to offload them. Generally, they're not pleasant places- a bit dark, a bit dismal, mediocre food and beer- but were popular enough once.

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  14. I drove past this the other day, and saw that the pub has now been demolished.

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