Over the years, I have often praised Wetherspoon’s business success in building an empire of large, thriving pubs from scratch in the face of an overall declining market. Earlier this year, I described how they had turned the existing business model of the industry on its head to be able to consistently deliver both food and drink at a much lower price point. I would largely agree with Cooking Lager’s comments about how the Wetherspoon’s App revolutionises the pub ordering process. And I will happily admit to using Spoon’s once or twice a month to take advantage of their food menu which, while not necessarily of gourmet quality, is unmatched by any competitors in its low prices and breadth of choice.
But please do not assume that this makes me a kind of uncritical fan of the company, as some people are. And, let me say it bluntly, in general I really don’t find Wetherspoon’s pubs congenial places to go for a drink.
Some years ago, I remember one member of the local CAMRA branch saying “I really don’t care what the pub’s like, so long as the beer is good.” But I have to say my attitude is pretty much the opposite. Obviously I don’t actively want to drink poor beer, but my priority when choosing somewhere to drink is a congenial environment. Maybe it is something of an autistic spectrum thing, but I would say I am much more sensitive than most to the physical characteristics of pubs.
I’ve been drinking legally for forty-eight years, and during that time I must have tried thousands of different beers. That’s more than enough to have worked out what I like and what I don’t. While I am interested in tasting beers like the new Boddingtons that are likely to become a permanent part of the landscape, or seasonal brews from local family brewers, my enthusiasm for tasting beers that I have never heard of before and am never likely to encounter again is pretty much zero. If you discount the Spartan industrial chic taproom kind of establishment, you really don’t tend to find uncongenial pubs with good beer. Broadly speaking, nice beer is found in nice pubs.
The key thing that I’m looking for is a sense of cosiness and enclosure. I’m not sure which pub the photo above is of – I believe it’s somewhere in the Welsh Marches – but that’s my kind of pub interior. Anywhere with tables and chairs in the middle of the room well away from the walls is a bit too wide-open for me, and I certainly don’t feel at home sitting there.
The best form of pub seating is wall benches, and my favoured spot is one where there is natural light from a window and I have a view of the bar or the door of the room. If there is loose seating, it should be arranged with the tables parallel to the wall rather than at right angles so you are looking into the centre of the room. Round tables are better than rectangular ones, especially with loose seating. Long tables that seat more than two at each side are a very bad idea. High-level posing tables are a complete no-no. Piped music is tolerable so long as it’s not too loud, but TV sport with the sound up is seriously offputting. Music can play in the background, but any TV with sound demands attention.
Fortunately, two of my nearby pubs, the Nursery in Heaton Norris and the Griffin in Heaton Mersey, tick most of those boxes, but unfortunately both are cursed with intrusive TV sport. I’ve often praised the quiet, cosy, comfortable environment of Samuel Smith’s pubs. All of those I regularly visit offer cask beer, but even if they didn’t I’d still enjoy going there.
But, sadly Wetherspoon’s, despite their low prices and lack of piped music, offer none of this. The typical Spoons branch has wide open spaces filled with a variety of loose furniture and posing tables. The picture above of the Palladium in Llandudno perfectly illustrates this – an impressive interior filled with cheap, disposable furniture. I might go in there for a meal, but I wouldn’t remotely feel at home. I’ve described such places in the past as being like a works canteen in a cathedral.
Some Wetherspoon’s are exceptions to this rule. For example, looking at my local ones, the Gateway in Didsbury has a congenial rear room with bench seating along one side, and another couple of corners of bench seating. The Kingfisher in Poynton has a raised area along the front that is only two tables deep and offers an element of seclusion from the rest of the pub. Both also have abundant natural light. Both, though, are conversions from pre-existing pubs. In contrast, the Calvert’s Court in Stockport, a former furniture shop, is basically just one long rectangular box.
So, while Spoons are a successful business and offer temptingly low prices, for me they really aren’t remotely appealing places just to go for a drink.




I broadly agree with this. They really ought to think the furniture through a bit more, but of course their aim isn't really cosiness, but a space to eat and drink that turn over quickly and easily. Nonetheless they could do more to give a nod to making the place less barn like.
ReplyDeleteI get the impression it's a deliberate policy to minimise customer dwell time by stopping them getting too comfortable.
DeleteMy local has two very nice cozy old-fashioned rooms but unfortunately the chairs are red velvet, 1980's Bish Vegas bordello-style. I assume they were very cheap to buy. If I win the lottery tonight I will gift them a proper furniture set.
ReplyDeleteWhen I sit down and think about it, it seems that the Wetherspoons furniture placement model is basically "lots of tables and chairs that can be dragged up to each other to allow people to fit in large groups". When I first started visited pubs after turning 18 we always went in big pubs that could cater big groups, and yeah, that was where Wetherspoons often came in. Got a group of ten? Oh there's two tables that can be pulled together.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible to have big pubs that have cozy nooks and crannies. Big areas, small ones. I can think of several. But of the Wetherspoons I've been in (and I admit I haven't been in many in recent years), those kind of spaces have come out of necessity of layout rather than design choice. A good example for me was the Montagu Pyke on Charing Cross Road in London. It's an old cinema but right at the back is a narrow section leading to an exit on Greek Street. Presumably some old fire exit or something. They had it so they put smaller tables and things in there. But other than that, it was (and I presume still is) a big drinking shed.
My priority in whether to go in a pub regularly or not is primarily that the beer is of good quality and just as importantly that the pub has a good atmosphere with decent clientele. For this reason, I prefer smaller local pubs rather than large soulless establishments like the majority of Wetherspoons pubs. I’ve mentioned before that I don’t like the way Tim Martin insists on paying for his beer by ABV irrespective of them type of hops used in the beer. He doesn’t seem to understand that a 4% beer consisting of Fuggles hops is much cheaper to brew than a beer with a hop like Citra, but he will only pay the same (low) price. Even though I’m an ex-brewer, this isn’t the main reason I rarely go in Wetherspoons, I generally just don’t like their pubs. I find them impersonal, poorly staffed and am normally uncomfortable when I go in them.
ReplyDeletePretty sure that Spoons paid more for Jaipur than they did for Full Whack or Wobbly Bob.
DeleteI agree about the sometimes unappealing open spaces... the picture of the Llandudno 'Spoons looks like a Buzz Bingo hall. I love most 'Spoonses though, and I've been in a few new ones recently. The Moon Under Water in Cheltenham was excellent, Unassuming from the street frontage, but it extends back into a small leafy park, with a deck over a small river. Open spaces yes, but we were in the bay seating around the edges, which I find private and cosy. The Lord John in Stroud was the opposite, dreary; uncared for; staff ignorant and jaded. I had possibly the worst ever chicken curry in there. The Bank House in Cheltenham was somewhere in between the first two.
ReplyDeleteYou don't understand pubs, Mudge lad.
ReplyDeletePubs are for finding a posing table, getting a cheap pint, putting on your noise cancelling headphones and pissing about with your devices over the WIFI. Tablet computer and streaming TV and 1.99 pints.
Your idea of a pub is dreadful and no wonder it is dying.
There's room for them all for me, Spoons, cosy traditional pubs and tap rooms, and I use them all in fairly equal measure. I use my local Spoons a bit like you, tea out with my missus a couple of times a month when we can't be bothered cooking, though I do also happily blend in with the numbers if on my own for a quick one after work or breaking a journey. I absolutely enjoy a good, unspoilt, traditional pub with a comforting tone, and also regularly use a couple of taps and station micro bars when I'm moving around the North West. Space for them all in my week, depending on what I'm doing at that moment in time
ReplyDeleteI don't like Spoon's because they drive the prices down, in an era where brewers are struggling to keep the lights on. If I want "cheap beer" I can go to the supermarket. I loathe the owner's politics so I also don't want to put money in his pocket. Also, there's just no charm or character in the ones I've visited with friends who've wanted to drink there. I'd much rather pay a reasonable price for excellent beer in more pleasant pubs. This isn't an aspersion on people who drink there and enjoy them, each to their own.
ReplyDeleteBrewers are stinking rich exploiters of the drinking classes. Hail Timbo for rinsing them and giving us a cheap pint!
DeleteBut the price of beer in the general run of pubs has increased by so much that it's now unaffordable for many people. A lot of the people drinking in Spoons wouldn't by in other pubs if they closed down, they'd be at home.
DeleteWhy would you want to pay £7 a pint? It makes drinking expensive for the ordinary man.
DeleteI never go in Wetherspoons now. The clientele get on my nerves. I'm a few years older than you Curmudgeon and your pubs are basically mine too. I find this admirably provided for in most Bathams and Holdens pubs. Also quality beers with mainly English hops and malt, and hardly any grapefruit hops from the colonies.
ReplyDeleteYou're very well off for traditional pubs in the Black Country.
DeleteYes Curmudgeon we are very lucky indeed !
DeleteI find the idea that anyone boycotts 'Spoons because of Brexit hilarious.
ReplyDeleteEven more so when you consider the actual vote was nearly a decade ago.
Instead they prefer to drink their pricey glass of sour grapes in the Hiroo Onoda Arms.
Sir Timbo made his fortune by figuring out early in his career that Guardian readers were not his target audience.
I have a weakness for his Eggs Benedict and getting pissed on good cider in his Taunton boozer when I go to watch Somerset play.
And his Bath outlet is consistently rammed by an eclectic mix of non-gammons.
For them you'll need to go to the Volunteer Rifleman.
the thing with Wetherspoons is theyre not one size fits all in style, some of them are just designed as gigantic drinking halls with very little charm, lots of those in London, some are quirky like the one I remember in Milton Keynes which was basically like a double glazing sales room,but all pink 80s neon in some kind of weird 50s diner throwback style, have a feeling that one might have closed now, but there are some really nice ones out there Corn Exchange in Bury St Edmunds regularly gets nominated as the best, and there are ones that are more traditional pub style in layout too that survive.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is theres no guarantee of which style youll get, goto the one at Birmingham new street and it feels like an airport departure lounge, absolutely not a drinking venue, which is weird because actually their bars in airports are actually much better than that, but the one at Liverpool Lime street, same function, same kind of customer base ie travelling, totally different and more relaxed feel.
fwiw I dont go drinking in my local except for the beer festivals, generally because the service is rubbish and youre surrounded by people drinking cheap spirits and cocktails, and parents with kids doing the same, which is never a great selling point in my book. We used to have a nicer 'spoons that was traditional pub style in setup, but it closed nearly a decade ago, as they could never sell enough food with that setup, and its never been reopened by anyone.
Hello, live in the States. Wish we had the option to go to a Wetherspoons. Nothing like it here. Went to a couple when we were in the UK 12 years ago. Nice to have choices.
ReplyDelete"The best form of pub seating is wall benches, and my favoured spot is one where there is natural light from a window and I have a view of the bar or the door of the room."
ReplyDeleteNo argument here. But, for me, that was/is sadly lacking in all of the places that I have lived in on this side of the pond in Canada. I'm sure there are some around, but they are few and far between.
Even in France, where my brother has lived these past 25 odd years, his 'bars' are very convivial. He has a half dozen or so near him where everyone seems to know his name (his Canadian accent helps with that!)
Over here, very few people talk to the folks around them at other tables. And the prices certainly aren't conducive to going every day!
I had one nearby (10 minute walk) that I was going to frequent once I retired. It was called the Royal Coachman and had a 'pubby' feel' to it. It had a nice outdoor area with a koi pond, and inside they had a sunken area with a fireplace, with a horseshoe area of tables around it in the slightly higher area. But, two years before retirement happened, it was shut down and then bulldozed (and nothing has been built since - sigh). But, even there, they had a silent KENO screen above the bar, as well as "sportsball" (baseball, basketball, and football - American style) on a few televisions scattered around (though the outside area had none of these distractions).
Luckily, my darling wife insisted we build my own space in our backyard (as she had taken over everything inside the house as well as a 400 sq ft area attached to the house that used to be her catering kitchen, until COVID torpedoed that right out of the water!).
So I now have what I call my own 'pub'. A 10' x 12' separate building with it's own heating and air conditioning, a bar with two high swivel stools, a lovely wingback reading chair, and a beer fridge. :)
It has come in handy over these last few years, when I was AWOL from what I call the BBB (British Beer Blogs) over there. It is my Zen place, all my own. I can look out the large sliding glass doors on one side and see half of our backyard, and out of two other smaller windows I can see the trumpeter vine which various birds (including humming birds) seem to like.
Still, I'd love to go and 'have a pint' with some regulars in a place with proper 'pub seating' once in a while. :)
Cheers
I'm back! (sort of)
I am now fully retired but, with my darling wife also home full time now, I seem to have less time than when I was working!
Have a proper pint for me sometime, in a proper pub, and I'll drop in every so often when I can find the time. :)
The lack of character and anonymity mean that I am often more comfortable in a Spoons when drinking alone with a book than in my local trad-pub or micro, where I'd stick out sitting on my own. The non-pubbiness also attracts ppl who wouldn't usually go to pubs, which makes the clientele more diverse and adds to the atmosphere.
ReplyDeleteI get that, but personally I don't want to sit in the middle of a wide open space well away from a wall. Some Spoons do achieve a measure of seclusion for part of their interior, often through the use of raised seating areas.
DeleteWhen travelling alone I did used to prefer Wetherspoons for the old sitting down with a pint and a book. But travelling to places without Wetherspoons made me realise there's lots of cosy pubs where you can sit with a book and no one will bat an eyelid. Even on a Friday and Saturday night. Yes, there's definitely some pubs I wouldn't do that in, and it is a little harder to find the pubs in town centres, but it's not often I fail to find somewhere nice and cosy!
DeleteSitting in a "cosy" pub reading a book usually elicits the question "What are you reading?" to which the reply "A book" is rarely regarded as adequate
DeleteI can't say anyone has asked me that recently!
DeleteThe fact that there's none of that dreadful bench seating in Spoons means you don't get stuck with pub bores and their so called "conversation". Nobody mithers you.
ReplyDeleteMudge is entitled to his opinion about spoons. Unlike a lot of beer geeks I'd put it down to preference and not disguised snobbery. However the market is a voting mechanism and in my observation the people are voting Spoons and not for Mudges choice. Whilst price is a big factor, it's not all down to that. Many of the features traditionalists dislike about Spoons are features that attract people who wouldn't go to regular pubs.
ReplyDeleteI sort of say that in the post. They don't set out to run cosy, intimate pubs. Yes, they are a successful business, and that has to be respected, but much of that success comes from deliberately eliminating the features customers didn't like about traditional pubs.
DeleteCurrently sat in Bath's Star Inn after a busy day stripping decades of wallpaper off the new gaff.
ReplyDeleteFour old boys on the next table with one of those large jugs of room temperature Bass.
No " whose round is it next " just topping up as and when needed.
No TV. No music.Just a low hubbub of people chatting with the occasional outburst of laughter.
A time warp for sure but what a respite from the maelstrom of depressing TV news and sodding influencers.
It could be 200 years ago but with electric lighting.
Just down the road from the Star Inn is an interesting place that has opened recently.
ReplyDeleteA tiny hole in the wall shop that used to be a Kettlesmiths - purveyors of expensive rank home brew that unsurprisingly closed down.
Instead a one-man band enthusiastic young feller has opened a Belgian/German beer bar with eclectic LP music ( think world music ) and the innocence of youth great hospitality.
I really hope he does well.
After the warm slops I drank in the " legendary " Green Man earlier it's a refreshing change to drink great beer - Chimay Gold on draught is the house beer with another half dozen Oktoberfest offerings on the taps this week.
He may crash and burn but I love his optimism.
Hospitality is alive and well in the most unlikely places - in this case The Squirrel.
Quick update - it's called The Sickle as I found out last night when I asked the delightful young chap running it why he called it The Squirrel. I blame the typography on the sign although the brilliant 8% Belgian dark beer I was supping ( £5.74 for 2/3rd ) ameliorated my embarassment.
DeleteAnd never let it be said that Gen Z are not drinking much these days.
The Bath Cider House just up the road where I enjoyed several pints of Bath Gold watching the rugger on telly was knee-deep in Fresher's Week clunge with a DJ just getting fired up as I left. I was the oldest person in there by 30 years but what a brilliant place it is with great ciders and good value pizzas.
It's a couple of decades since I last lived in a city but there's much to be said for the variety and anonymity of bars where everybody doesn't know your name. And you don't have to talk to the same boring dipshits you find in your local.