Friday, 31 January 2020

Raise a glass

Well, at last we’ve got there. Forty-three months after the referendum, and ten months after it was supposed to happen, today we are finally leaving the European Union. So I think I can be forgiven for indulging in a celebratory libation of English ale.

The day after the referendum, I made the point that the smoking ban, and other instances of the political class treating ordinary people with patronising contempt, was a small contributory factor towards the result. And subsequent events have only served to reinforce that message.

A reminder that the comment facility is not provided as a platform for Brexit bitterness.

17 comments:

  1. Or Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish ale. We voted to leave as one United Kingdom not 4 individual countries much as Mrs Krankie would have you believe otherwise

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  2. Will be going up the pub tonight to raise a few to celebrate. Then a glass with her indoors at 23.00. We will have legally left the EU. Huzzah. So when will VAT get cancelled? 1st of January 2021?

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  3. Not bitterness, Peter, just sadness. At the event and at the gloating of leavers, exemplified in your current blog.
    Still the even cheaper beer in 'spoons will cheer me up even though it hasn't happened yet :-)

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    1. One man's celebration is another man's gloating, of course. Surely people who have campaigned for something for many years, and who had feared that defeat might be snatched from the jaws of victory, should be entitled to a little bit of joy? And I do remember the odd bit of crowing about, for example, Blair's landslide election victory in 1997.

      A key plank of democracy is "loser's consent". You may not like an election result, you may bitterly resent it, but if you try to reverse it by undemocratic means you undermine the whole basis of the system and invite grievous consequences.

      Ironically, by betting the farm on trying to reverse the result, the Remain camp have ended up with a much clearer separation from the EU than might have been possible if they had accepted the result but supported proposals for closer alignment.

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    2. I understand democracy and respect it. You won't find me grumbling about the result of the general election, even though I abhor the Prime Minister and his cronies. That general election was properly conducted under electoral law. But the EU referendum was not legally binding so that its conduct was outwith electoral law. Blatant lies, misinformation (on both sides) spending that would have been illegal had it been a legally binding vote. These are the reasons that I do not consider it democratic.

      Nor were the attempts to reverse it undemocratic. They were conducted in the British Parliament, the very heart of our democratic process. But you are right that the Remain camp could have done better. I am sure that many of both leavers and remainers would have been content for us to stay in a close trading relationship. The most common complaint from older voters is that they voted in 1973 to join an economic union not a political union

      Now lets get back to discussing how leaving will affect pubs and beer :-) :-)

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    3. Pubs and beer are unlikely to be unduly affected unless a recession occurs which affects the discretionary spending of customers. In the event that duties are imposed on products from the EU there may be substitutions by products from the UK or abroad,eg German,Irish or Italian beer being substituted by UK or USA beer. Staff recruitment may also change as it may be difficult to recruit from the EU and there may be more reliance on UK staff or labour saving technology such as the APP used by Wetherspoons to place orders.

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    4. @dcbwhaley - of course the referendum was not legally binding in the sense that Parliament could have chosen not to put it into effect. This was confirmed by the Gina Miller court case. However, the government did clearly state "This is your decision. We will implement what you decide". If the electorate had voted for Brexit, and Parliament had ignored them, it would have done immense damage to democracy and trust in politics. Do not imagine that the proles would just have quietly crawled back into their holes.

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  4. Sadness here too, especially at having my rights as a European Citizen ripped from under my feet.

    Particularly sad at losing my right to retire to any of 27 other European countries.

    And for what??

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    1. You never were a European citizen. There is no such thing.

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  5. I was never asked if I wanted to be an EU citizen. The Treaty of Maastricht forced it on me, unwanted. That's really when a referendum should have taken place.

    Pre the EEC/EU, people often retired to European countries, particularly Spain, and strangely, European travel was widespread too.

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    1. The ratification of the Maastricht treaty was, of course, advocated by the Conservatives in their 1992 manifesto. So in ratifying the treaty John Major was obeying the will of the people.

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  6. As I understand the position there are no EU citizens. A person is a citizen of one of the nations which forms part of the EU and the various treaties which govern the operation of the EU give those national citizens rights to move around the EU and to vote in elections for the EU parliament. The rights accrue by virtue of a person's citizenship of the member country and not from the EU. A member of the EU may choose to leave,in the UK's case the decision to leave was taken after a referendum the result of which was endorsed by two general elections,in such circumstances nobody can be said to have had their rights as an EU citizen ripped from under their feet as they were not EU citizens but were citizens of their own country which chose to leave

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  7. Professor Pie-Tin7 February 2020 at 16:29

    Well here in Ireland the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar who spent most of the past three and a half years doing the EU's bidding is going to pay for it with his job in the election this weekend.
    Rather like Theresa May he's thrown away a big poll lead banking on a Brexit bonus by calling the election.
    Instead of concentrating on housing and healthcare he peacocked across the European stage thinking the folks back home would applaud him for sticking it to the Brits.
    And they did.
    Until the moment Boris got an 80-seat majority and Brexit happened and then just like in the UK the hot air dissipated and people were just glad it was all over.
    And should I feel sorry for the Remoaners and not gloat ? Not a bit of it.
    They've spent years calling ordinary folk who voted for Brexit thick,racist and xeonophobic.
    They were responsible by far for the most vitriolic abuse in the whole Brexit campaign.
    And now they desperately want the UK to fail just so they can be proved right.
    It won't.
    And I shall enjoy every single moment of the schadenfreude.
    What a lovely German word.

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    1. Welcome back, Prof 🤗 👍

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    2. Point of order Prof. As a remainer I have never called ordinary folk who voted for Brexit thick,racist or xeonophobic. Sadly and understandably manipulated but non of those epithets

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    3. Saying people have allowed themselves to be "manipulated" is very close to calling them thick.

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    4. Far from it. Anyone, even some one as brilliant as what I is, can be and has been manipulated

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